[coda_]

Your experience is not at all what I see out there. Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day. They hate having to set up a new phone when their old one is totally fine other than the battery.

For the people I know that do upgrade their phones regularly, they typically want to give their old phone to someone who would love a usable phone, but can't afford a new one. Giving a phone with a shot and non-replaceable battery effectively destroys the value of the gift.

I know many people who can't afford to by new, and they avoid buying older or used phones because they fear the battery may be shot.

We obviously have different opinions regarding what most people want... totally fine.

[superfrank]

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day

I don't disagree with this, but I also think it's because the battery often dies around the time most people would consider upgrading anyway. The battery isn't the only reason people upgrade, it's just a forcing factor.

If batteries normally last 3-5 years, I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep their phones for 7-10 years. I still think we're going to see people upgrading around the 3-5 year mark. I would point to the current market as evidence of this. An iPhone battery replacement is somewhere between $50-$100 right now which is drastically cheaper than a new iPhone and yet we still see the 3-5 year upgrade cycle. Maybe making it something you can do at home in a few minutes will result in a few more people just choosing to replace the battery vs the entire phone, but I don't see it drastically changing things since a cheap alternative to replacing the phone already exists and yet we still see the 3-5 year replacement cycle.

[buran77]

> If batteries normally last 3-5 years, I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep their phones for 7-10 years.

I think they will eventually. People hang on to their computers for longer and longer because old ones are just good enough. Phones are getting to that same stage in their evolution where they stopped evolving by leaps and bounds between generations. A seven year old phone like an iPhone 11 for example is perfectly adequate for a lot of people.

There are two real blockers from keeping a phone for so long, official software support and battery life. If some big manufacturers solved the first with extended support cycles, which is an expensive one, why not solve the second too?

[superfrank]

The second problem is already solved though. My wife just had to get her phone iPhone battery replaced so we went to the Apple store and it was $99 and the replacement took less than an hour.

The average person probably can't (or won't) replace an iPhone battery themselves right now, but getting an iPhone battery replaced is relatively easy and cheap compared to replacing the phone and yet most people still don't do it.

I feel people on here are forgetting that for a lot of people a phone is not just about utility. It's a lifestyle purchase that people tie into their self identity. That's why we see things like the whole blue bubble vs green bubble messaging drama that came up a few years ago.

[loup-vaillant]

> I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep their phones for 7-10 years.

I do. I lasted more than 15 years on 2 phones, and the only reason I'm at my fourth right now, is because the third was stolen after 3 months of use. I'm hoping its replacement, a used phone already, will last at least 5 years. Regardless, my next upgrade will not be a choice. I will milk my current phone until I am forced to change, as I always do.

[superfrank]

I don't think you're a good representation of the average consumer

[nitwit005]

We're going to start seeing people keep the phones longer and longer. It used to be people were amazed at the upgrade between iPhone versions, and now they struggle to identify a difference.

[anonymars]

For Android this also runs into the problem of security/OS update support

[bluefirebrand]

> most people would consider upgrading anyway

most people would buy one phone and keep it forever if they could, because most people can't actually afford to be replacing their phone frequently.

The only reason they do is because they get slower, or battery gets worn out or whatever else. If their one phone actually lasted forever they would likely happily keep it forever

[0cf8612b2e1e]

Especially now that there are near zero new hardware features to differentiate the latest models. “Oh 3MP better camera on what was already a fake big number. Cool, I guess”

The only reason I upgraded to my current model was to get USBC (thanks Europe!!!).

[albuic]

Agreed. Not much differences between new phones and couple years older phones if you are not doing crazy gaming on phones. At least for me but maybe some of you might have good reasons to upgrade and can tell us ?

[mrweasel]

Other than a few people who absolutely must have the latest phone, I only see two reason why people replace their phone: 1) Battery is no good. 2) Operating system has stopped getting updates and they can no longer run that one or two apps they really need.

Replaceable battery and 10 years of OS updates and a large percentage of people would stop upgrading their phones. There hasn't been much innovation in phones in the past 10 years. If the battery hadn't died and the OS was still updated there would be zero reason for me to not be using my iPhone 7.

[joe_the_user]

Sure, batteries dying are just one way in which phones become disposable. But I want to fight all those ways too (stupid new protocols and lack of security updates notably).

[albrewer]

> the battery often dies around the time most people would consider upgrading anyway

Most people I know would prefer to just use the same phone they're familiar with until its physically not possible. They don't want to learn new things. They dont care about the latest features. It's an appliance; a means to and end and nothing more.

[srmatto]

I can't speak to the experience with Android but Apple offers both in-store battery replacement or Mail-in battery replacement for $70-120 which to me seems very reasonable. Could it be cheaper? Sure, maybe I guess? But $70-120 is a lot less than a new phone. And this way we don't need to compromise the shell of the phone with seams and things that can fail.

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement

[semi-extrinsic]

The battery costs $7-$12 to produce and ship to your location, so kind of strange to say $70-$120 is cheap.

It's a philosophical thing, sure. But the EU is taking the approach that businesses should make honest money by selling quality products, not through consumer-hostile practices like inflating the cost of spare parts + labour for fixing stuff.

In the past our family has had several Android phones where the battery was easily replaceable. We even had a couple of Motorolas where the screen was a simple and cheap thing to replace. That seems to be increasingly a thing of the past.

With those phones, I have never once experienced a failure mode related to seams / screws holding the phone together. If it's one thing that's extremely well known technology, it's fasteners and gaskets for consumer products.

[BigTTYGothGF]

> And this way we don't need to compromise the shell of the phone with seams and things that can fail

The ancients managed to design around replaceable batteries, I don't think these techniques have been entirely lost to time.

[scottyah]

The ancients also designed ways to carry humans without gas or electricity, but I don't really want to regress to those techniques.

[xdennis]

The "ancients" refers to phone makers 15 years ago when batteries were still replaceable.

[BigTTYGothGF]

Not a biker, eh?

[scottyah]

Hah fair- I wouldn't give up paragliding either. To keep the analogies- I wouldn't want a bike without inflatable tires, nor a paraglider without a reserve.

[halostatue]

They also designed with cheap shells that felt loose before a year was out, and offered exactly zero water and dust protection so if your device got wet, it was considered out of warranty.

[Neywiny]

https://m.gsmarena.com/results.php3?chkRemovableBattery=sele...

Incorrect. Here are 115 phones with removable batteries and rated for > 0 water protection.

[vincnetas]

how long are you willing to be without your phone? banking apps, public transit tickets, calls, messages, digital signatures. this is luxury not many can afford these days to be offline for days.

[rendx]

With Apple, at least in Germany, you schedule an appointment online, you walk in at that time, and you can come pick it up an hour later. Many independent shops offer basically the same for Android and Apple phones.

[pirates]

When I did it two months ago it took them an hour. Be generous and say they’re backed up and sometimes it takes two hours. Is that too long to be without your phone?

[bragr]

That's assuming you live near a store.

[kalmi10]

There are many small shops that swap batteries just fine in an hour, at least in Europe.

[u_fucking_dork]

> offline for days

Just making shit up.

[vincnetas]

i was referring more to this part "Mail-in battery replacement". good to know that they can do this so fast. but it would be even faster when battery would be user serviceable. and not everyone is living driving distance away from certified workshops.

[antonvs]

> And this way we don't need to compromise the shell of the phone with seams and things that can fail.

My older Samsung Galaxy had an easy clip-off back cover and easily replaceable battery. Nothing related to that ever failed.

Whereas two newer Pixel phones have had issues with the back cover glue coming loose, leading to interior damage.

Given that, the idea that a case that can be opened easily “compromises the shell of the phone” sounds like a weak excuse for some other deficiency or agenda.

[dpoloncsak]

Can you keep the same water-resistant standards with a removable cover? In my head that's the main tradeoff

[buran77]

> the same water-resistant standards

You can have water protection and easily replaceable battery.

Still, I'm really curious about how many people take advantage of those standards and need IP67 (30min at 1m depth) as opposed to a quick splash or rain on it, or how many buy the artificial tradeoff of water resistance over easily replaceable battery because this is all that's offered.

[albuic]

Yes you can! It was done with many phones in the past...

[nozzlegear]

I just checked for my iPhone 14 Pro and the mail-in battery replacement is free. Maybe because I have Apple Care?

[bzzzt]

Yes. You're paying at least $9,99 per month which means that after the 5 or so years when the battery starts going bad you've already paid for multiple batteries.

[nozzlegear]

Well yeah but it also covers an entire new phone if I break the phone. So it's not like I'm paying for AppleCare just to get a battery.

[prmoustache]

In many part of the world a lot of people buy second hand phones exclusively and they are the first customers for battery replacement. $70-120 is quite steep for them.

[derkades]

A genuine Pixel battery costs €38 from iFixit

[0x3f]

It would seem that "different opinions are out there" is not really a good basis for "one opinion enforced by EU directive", though.

[Mali-]

If your battery is replaceable, you can still decide to throw the phone away and add to the pile of e-waste. The legislation allows both choices, at the cost of higher prices.

[stefanvdw1]

Having a higher price is an incentive to using the phone you have a bit longer by replacing the battery. It’s certainly better than having them be guaranteed e-waste.

[0x3f]

Obviously people aren't finding the literal act of wasteful disposal the appealing thing about e.g. non-self-repairable iPhones, so no, not really.

[Am4TIfIsER0ppos]

This but for USB-C

[dsego]

It's now possible to carry a spare battery or two, instead of lugging a portable power bank and slowly charging your phone. This is great news for outdoorsy types, travel, long bicycle rides, hiking, and so on.

[scottyah]

but they require you to have a special charger, or typically you have to charge them one by one from your phone. Swapping batteries also requires downtime (not easy mid-flight, cycle, or whatever you're doing). A portable battery charger is much better imo. Plugging in a cord is always going to be easier and require less hands and focus than replacing a battery and keeping any kind of dust-and waterproofness.

[cactusplant7374]

> They hate having to set up a new phone when their old one is totally fine other than the battery.

That is why I have the battery replaced every few years.

[burnte]

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day.

Most people I know get a new phone when they can't take the cracked screen anymore, or when they completely lose the phone. Or because a pretty new one came out and they upgraded two years ago so it's "time". That's most people.

[concinds]

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day

Getting the battery replaced is already trivial and cheap. Revealed preference is that most people say they want it, but don't. This won't even decrease the cost or difficulty (you'll still need a screwdriver).

[fer]

But replacing a replaceable battery is trivialer and cheaperer.

I've replaced more batteries (and screens) than I can count, and it's increasingly difficult and complicated. 5 years ago or so I'd agree with you, but now there's no phone I can easily open without heat gun, controlling the air so no spec of dust land on the lenses (and a blower to remove in case it happens), and almost always I need adhesive (B7000) to patch or replace the original one to keep similar level of weather proofing. It's easy if you pay 100 bucks someone else to do it, sure.

Back in the days of my HTC Desire I could carry an extra battery, or two, in the pocket, without issue. Nowadays I'm married to a power bank that needs to be plugged for the duration.

[salad-tycoon]

Last couple of years it’s gotten easier, for iPhones at least. Pardon the YT short but it’s 48seconds or look up “iPhone 9v battery” if you’ve blocked YT shorts.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/VNZewnrkDng

[MaKey]

It isn't trivial (you can't do it yourself) nor cheap (79€ for Samsung phones).

[halostatue]

That's at most 1/10th the cost of the average Samsung phone.

That's cheap. If you think that a safe first-party replacement battery will sell for less than the 79€ that the whole replacement effort takes, then you're fooling yourself.

I strongly suspect that there's also not good language for blocking against third-party batteries (and the phone manufacturers would have good reason to do so because it might result in overheating or worse with really bad third-party batteries).

[ragall]

Here's a replacement battery for last year's S25 Ultra: https://www.mobilesentrix.ca/replacement-battery-compatible-.... Retails for 14 CAD or approx 9 EUR (11 EUR with a 20% VAT). So yes, 79 EUR would be extremely expensive.

[0cf8612b2e1e]

The people for whom €79 is not cheap are not getting flagship Samsungs, but some low tier $100-300 Android.

[rootusrootus]

Even going directly to Apple for out-of-warranty battery replacement is almost always way cheaper than getting another phone.

[gib444]

Most people I know get a new phone because the marketing works on them and they lie that it's about the battery.

They all know about Apple's battery replacement programme that's been around for years now

And iCloud backups makes setting up a new phone trivial

[jesterson]

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day.

I am not sure if your statistic is correct or people giving you excuses to get the latest model. If we speak iphones, flipping the battery is cheap and fast process, incomparable with the hassle of doing re-setup.

I am not sure if the process is equally or more simple with android phones though, but in my circle noone buys new phone because of the battery (often the battery is used as excuse to get a newer model).

[saghm]

> I am not sure if the process is equally or more simple with android phones though, but in my circle noone buys new phone because of the battery (often the battery is used as excuse to get a newer model).

Your circle sounds pretty strange honestly. Everyone in it lies to you about why they do things, but you secretly know their real motivations?