[adolph]

An interesting aspect to changes like this is that they demonstrate the silos and fissures between various government functions. There isn't already a standard intra-government API that for an identify returns the relationship person has to the US government (i.e. citizen, legal resident, visa like student or H1B?

[nemomarx]

What input would you use? There's no unified government ID.

You could probably look up a name and birth date and establish if a citizen exists with that information, I guess. You could check social security (which I'm not sure definitively indicates status) and see the same for that. But it's a very messy system in general.

My name is actually different in a few government databases - in one I have two middle names, in the other two last names. Just random clerical stuff like that is common.

[justin66]

If there's not a table somewhere maintained by the US government that associates social security number with citizenship status, that's because a choice was made by the government not to do that. It would be a simple enough thing to do.

(yes, checking against name / DOB / ssn always has some inherent messiness to it)

[nemomarx]

It's definitely a choice, because we've avoided having a real standardized identity system run by the government for so long.

But there are reasons for people to oppose it on both sides of the aisle (states rights, immigration views, anti federalism, libertarians) so it's a pretty hard task. Maybe this admin could try it as an immigration security measure and get some support that way but I have my doubts.

[estebank]

> You could check social security (which I'm not sure definitively indicates status) and see the same for that.

It doesn't. When I naturalized, I had to schedule an in person appointment at the Social Security offices to change my status in their systems. There was a time gap between me being American, me having a passport, me being recorded as American as far as SS was concerned and me having a SS card that didn't have caveats written across it.

[JumpCrisscross]

> me being recorded as American as far as SS was concerned and me having a SS card that didn't have caveats written across it

I naturalized over a decade ago and just realised this is still on my social-security card.

Do I actually have to do anything about it before I go to claim benefits?

[estebank]

The forcing function on my side was to avoid problems when changing jobs. I don't know what problems there might be claiming benefits that you are entitled to, but if you didn't have the change of status registered, that might delay things until you do. If you did change your status but didn't get a card, you can get a replacement one that won't have the text.

One of the things I was concerned for months until I got the new card is the federal government querying the social security database looking for immigrants or discrepancies with any of their other databases and not caring that the discrepancies are of their own making. Being a naturalized citizen with an accent, I keep traveling with my passport for internal trips.

[adolph]

I was curious if a newly naturalized citizen gets a new number when transferring from Individual Taxpayer Identification Number to a Social Security Number–apparently yes, that is the case, and it makes taxes on your year of naturalization more exciting.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/additional-itin-information

[irishcoffee]

> What input would you use? There's no unified government ID.

Isn't a passport a unified government ID?

[estebank]

The additional 165 dollars to get a passport for the first time is quite steep for a document that seems to become more and more mandatory. Papier, bitte.

Countries with national IDs charge you to replace one if it gets lost, and it usually costs less than 10 USD.

[lamasery]

I'm also not quite sure how you get a passport without a bank account. Can you pay in cash? Even if you can, I'm guessing that's only at certain offices, which adds to the hassle and cost.

[irishcoffee]

So, it is in fact a national government ID, you agree?

[estebank]

Is anyone disputing that?

What people are arguing against is that making having a passport mandatory to participate in society is an unreasonable burden, under the current structures. If you wanted to mail a passport to every American in the mail, at no cost, no questions asked, that would be a very different proposition to what is being discussed.

[irishcoffee]

>> What input would you use? There's no unified government ID.

I was responding to that, a few replies up. So, yes, it was disputed. Why do you ask?

[nemomarx]

You can't guarantee every citizen has a passport, so if you were running this as a bank or an employer or so on an API that only took passport information would not be super helpful. When I think of a unified ID I think of a number everyone gets at birth tied to an ID card they can show you. Social security is closest to this but the cards say they're not supposed to be used for identification and it's a cludge.

[irishcoffee]

> You can't guarantee every citizen has a passport

Why not?

[pjc50]

Well, there isn't a national ID system, partly because the citizens don't want to be on the wrong end of when that API says "no". I'm not sure anywhere has such a fully available live system, rather than relying on people bringing documents in to the bank.

The live update would add an extra element of terror to the system, of course.

Edit: actually the UK system is pretty much this, except it's a token rather than an API, presumably to prevent you looking up random people without their consent: https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work/get-a-share-code-onli...

Note that is for right to work, not right to reside, neither of which is the same thing as eligible for a bank account.

[adolph]

> The live update would add an extra element of terror to the system, of course.

Yes, I think I didn't do a good job of placing the question as from the perspective of someone who is not aware of the silos and firewalls within what might otherwise appear to be a monolithic government.

The terror to the system is from the perspective of having lived within the system and not understanding how to operate in the world outside of it. It is a classic sci-fi trope; Brazil and The Minority Report come to mind. It is also a feature of classical Athens where ostracism was a particularly severe punishment.

[cucumber3732842]

Just because you own a supercar doesn't mean you daily drive it.

That stuff most certainly exists. It's just not for cog #897345673847456 to use in an above the table on the record capacity as part of their run of the mill daily job duties.

[dlcarrier]

There's many ways the US is more federated than the EU. The US constitution heavily limits what the federal government can do, especially when a state government could do the same. The only reason there's a federal income tax of individuals is because a constitutional amendment was passed to allow it. Outside of taxes, and the Social Security program that redistributes a lot of that tax income, most individuals have no reason to interact directly with the federal government.