[throwanem]

Real question, then, from someone who only bothers driving when he must and even then in a 2016 model: Why do you use it? What beneficial purpose do you find it to serve?

I'm asking because I feel I must be missing something, inasmuch as to have my hands on the wheel while not controlling the car is an experience with which I'm familiar from skids and crashes, and thinking about it as an aspect of normal operation makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. (Especially with no obviously described "deadman switch" or vigilance control!)

[x187463]

Here's a simple example from last week. FSD was in control on my way to work, stopped at a red light early in the morning before the sun was up. The light turns green and FSD does not accelerate. I figured it was somehow confused and I was starting to move toward hitting the accelerator myself when a car comes flying through the red light from the driver's side. I hadn't noticed this car, but FSD saw it and recognized it wasn't slowing down. I could see there were headlights, but it wasn't clear how fast it was going.

It's just nice having a 'second set of eyes' in a sense. It's also very useful when driving in unfamiliar cities where much of my attention would be spent on navigation and trying to recognize markings/signs/light positions that are atypical. FSD handles the minutia of basic vehicle operation so I can focus on higher level decisions. Generally, at inner-city speeds, safety and time-to-act are less of an issue and it just becomes a matter of splitting attention between pedestrians, obstacles, navigation, etc. FSD if very helpful in these situations.

[throwanem]

Huh.

I appreciate your thoughtful and detailed response. I'll need to think about it for a while, too. It had not occurred to me to consider the possibility that someone else's FSD might protect me from the general incompetence and unreliability of amateur motor vehicle operators.

(Jumping a light in the dark? Not thinking or learning to navigate by verbal instructions from your satnav or phone, instead of compromising the primary sense you must constantly use to drive without risking manslaughter? I'm sorry, but if this is the standard, I really can't describe it other than it is...to say nothing of your considering safety less important, as you say, in the "inner city" that is my home.)

[x187463]

> Jumping a light in the dark?

I don't know what this means.

> Not thinking or learning to navigate by verbal instructions from your satnav or phone, instead of compromising the primary sense you must constantly use to drive without risking manslaughter?

Navigating involves reading street signs, block numbers, and traffic markings. These are all visual elements that can distract from safety monitoring. How many minor accidents result from driver's trying to figure out where they are, or need to go?

> I'm sorry, but if this is the standard, I really can't describe it other than it is...to say nothing of your considering safety less important, as you say, in the "inner city" that is my home.

My claim isn't that safety is less important in city driving, it's that driving is far safer due to lower speeds. There's more time to react and lower risk of catastrophic results when driving at 35mph. The challenge for a driver isn't sudden loss of control as you may experience at 65+mph. The city driving challenge is trying to track markings, signage, pedestrians, and parked cars while also navigating and managing the vehicle's basic operation. FSD can track all of that without distraction and leave the driver responsible for more human reasoning tasks.

[throwanem]

> I don't know what this means.

You failed, in this case by hastening to cross the intersection as soon as the light came green, to account for the possibility of another driver's error. If you weren't taught to do that, as I was, then the mistake is not entirely your own. It was still a mistake, which you have already acknowledged would have led you into an accident had your vehicle not rescued you.

> There's more time to react and lower risk of catastrophic results when driving at 35mph.

Not for me. You're the one wearing power armor, remember.

[x187463]

> You failed, in this case by hastening to cross the intersection as soon as the light came green, to account for the possibility of another driver's error. If you weren't taught to do that, as I was, then the mistake is not entirely your own. It was still a mistake, which you have already acknowledged would have led you into an accident had your vehicle not rescued you.

Even if we accept your interpretation of the situation as true, you're making the case for FSD. You can think of FSD (or other self-driving solutions) as raising the floor for bad drivers. If I'm a driver with some otherwise dangerous habits (nobody is perfect) then FSD is filling the gaps in my skill.

> Not for me. You're the one wearing power armor, remember.

But this is a joint interaction between the pedestrian and the vehicle. I can't make the pedestrian more aware. I can't give the pedestrian super-human reaction time. I can, however, give those traits to the vehicle. That's a major selling point for autonomous vehicles.

[throwanem]

Well, sure. As I said yesterday, it hadn't previously occurred to me to think of someone else's FSD as helping keep me safe from them. (Thank you again, by the way, for helping me put two and two together on that!)

As a pedestrian, I don't need superhuman reaction time, because unlike some I move at speeds a human mind can comprehend. Nor, I promise you, need I be "more aware" - what a frankly foolish thing to say, when there is nothing on Earth even remotely as dangerous to me, day to day, than you and those like you! I assure you, I am about as aware as it is possible to be. I have to be! Look at you.

But this again is a splendid illustration of the problem, for which I again must give my gratitude: the old-school motorhuckle lifestyler dingbats were right all along, it turns out, to call cars "cages." You carry yours around in your head all the time, I see.

[grvdrm]

Glad you're ok!

I was watching the Tesla display on my way back home from LaGuardia airport last week (passenger, not driver).

No accidents or close calls, but it was obvious that I might be focused on 1 or 2 things in that very busy and chaotic environment whereas the car (FSD or otherwise) sees more than 2 things and possibly avoids something on my behalf.

[throwanem]

> I might be focused on 1 or 2 things in that very busy and chaotic environment...

...so you hired a professional to do that job for you, instead of risking the wellbeing of everyone nearby. This was the correct decision!