[theturtlemoves]

Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish

You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half.

Both have been eroded. Kids are raised by strangers, our food is crap, you can't warn each other about dangers cause that's somehow an insult and a single income doesn't pay the bills.

The goal seems to be to set men and women against each other.

[WarOnPrivacy]

> Four things are needed. Stereotypically they're divided Dad: Protect and provide Mom: Nurture and nourish

> You could do it differently, but that only works if you swap one, not share half half.

I disagree. But I started nurturing early by planning and orchestrating all our births (home, birth center, birth center, twins/hospital) and her prenatal care.

Much later, my wife developed psych issues and in the end I was performing all roles to our 5 sons. But well before then I was deeply into nurturing our sons as infants, toddlers, PreK and grade schoolers. I changed most of the diapers (cloth! for sons 1 & 2.). I packed lunches, did cub scout leadership, cleaned up the wounds and encouraged them to go get more.

Compared to competent moms and dads, I wasn't substandard, insufficient or compromised in any way.

[theturtlemoves]

If I may attempt to clarify my stance. Stereotypically, on average, interpolate for your marriage and all that, if a man does a task/role, he has the ball. He doesn't share the ball. Doing X is my job? Aight, my job. No touchy. Mine. I've got this.

Wife starts doing X. Boom, clarity lost.

I know, I know, shades of grey and all that. But on average, divide it clearly and you know who is responsible for what.

You did all of it, while your wife was sick. Kudos man, tough job done well.

My point wasn't about the heaviness of the task, or about how well each could do it, but about clarity and role division.

[WarOnPrivacy]

> if a man does a task/role, he has the ball. He doesn't share the ball. Doing X is my job? Aight, my job. No touchy. Mine. I've got this.

> Wife starts doing X. Boom, clarity lost.

These seems to reflect a strong division of labor. And it has me wondering if that work might be ever divided on ideological grounds. Either of those would be the opposite of what works for me.

They're also the opposite of what I want. Which is a more seamless integration, one where we are fairly interchangeable - where either of us can do what reasonably needs doing.

[theturtlemoves]

Reality is the final judge. If you get the seamless integration to work well and it's what you want, go for it. If it doesn't, revert to the default setting. Vanilla grows on you, it really does

[JKCalhoun]

Who is the disciplinarian in the house? I get it, there does tend to be a "role" there (not clear which sex gets that one–it seems to be dependent on a lot of factors—perhaps who is the less patient being the top one).

It just seems odd that anyone would see "nurturing" as assigned to one or the other parent.

[JKCalhoun]

"The goal seems to be to set men and women against each other."

Is that not easy to disregard? I certainly feel like my wife and I disregarded it raising our kids.

[theturtlemoves]

If you've never bought into it, that the other sex is to blame, then I'm sure you teamed up quite smoothly.

But I've seen numerous examples, and in my own marriage we also had to figure this stuff out because as kids we had bought into a lot of (never quite spoken out loud but loudly hinted at) unhealthy messages...

[ozozozd]

I mean, how you clearly point out the immovable constraint and blow past it as if the whole thing is just a cultural fad is somewhat shocking.

Single income doesn’t pay the bills. Period. Everything else is downstream.

One could argue that your talking about the dangers of these downstream effects is insulting and classist. Who is gonna pay these bills? Do you think we prefer that strangers raise our kids?

If we had a trust fund, we would raise our kids ourselves, and backhand brag on forums about how it is the right way. Sadly, we don’t.

[theturtlemoves]

Where did I say anything about a cultural fad? Where did I mention "dangers of downstream effects"? Where did I claim that I think "we prefer strangers raise our kids"?

You're pulling your reply straight from the offended-rack