[ModernMech]

Labeling power evil is not automatic, its just making an observation of the common case. Money-backed power almost never works for the forces of good, and the people who claim they're gonna be good almost always end up being evil when they're rich and powerful enough. See also: Google.

[WarmWash]

Google is the company that created a class-less non-hierarchical internet. Everyone can get the same access to the same services regardless of wealth or personhood. Google is probably the most progressive company to ever exist, because money stops no one from being able to leverage google's products. Born in the bush of the Congo or high rise of Manhatten, you are granted the same google account with the same services. The cost of entry is just to be a human, one of the most sacrosanct pillars of progressive ideology.

Yet here they are, often considered on of the most evil companies on Earth. That's the interesting quirk.

[ModernMech]

Lot of people and companies were responsible for that. Anyway, that says nothing about what Google has become.

[devmor]

> Google is the company that created a class-less non-hierarchical internet.

Can you explain what you mean by this? I disagree but I don't understand how you think Google did this so I am very curious.

For my part, I started using the internet before Google, and I strongly hold the opinion that Google's greatest contribution to the internet was utterly destroying its peer to peer, free, open exchange model by being the largest proponent of centralizing and corporatizing the web.

[WarmWash]

The alternative was a teleco AOL style internet with pay tiers for access to select websites. The free web of the 90's would remain, but would be about as culturally relevant as Linux.

Surely you have to recognize the inconsistency of saying that Google "corporatized" the web, while the vast majority of people using google have never paid them anything. In fact many don't even load their ads or trackers, and still main a gmail account.

If we put on balance good things and evil things google has done, with honest intention, I struggle very hard to counter "gave the third world a full suite of computer programs and access to endless video knowledge for free with nothing more than dumpy hardware", while the evil is "conspired with credit card companies to find out what you are buying".

This might come off like I am just glazing google. But the point I am trying to illuminate is that when there is big money at play, people knee-jerk associate it with evil, and throw all nuance out the window.

Besides, IRC still exists for you and anyone else to use. Totally google free.

[devmor]

No I actually do understand where your opinion comes from now and I partially agree. I had forgotten about how badly the ISPs wanted the internet to mirror Cable TV plans.

There’s several subjects to go into here and HN probably isn’t the best place for the amount of detail this discussion requires but I will just note the amount of people blocking Google’s ads and trackers is negligible and has significantly shrunk in the mobile first era.

The wave is shifting to other corporations now but for a good while most of the internet was architected to give Google money. Remember SEO? An entire practice of web publishing centered around Google’s profit share. That hasn’t disappeared- it’s just evolved and transformed into more ingrained rent-seeking.

[drzaiusx11]

*Was