[gmueckl]

Yes! Even closing the windows of programs that users no longer need is hard.

It's easy to develop a disconnect with the level that average users operate at when understanding computers deeply is part of the job. I've definitely developed it myself to some extent, but I have occasional moments where my perspective is getting grounded again.

[ultratalk]

I don't think that's representative of most non-CS professionals. Most people in the fields I know (mostly professors, medical doctors, and businesspeople) can use google chrome, word, powerpoint, and a little of excel decently. There are the occasional few who confuse spreadsheets and databases, but no one who thinks shutting down computers or closing windows is hard. Heck, my ageing dad managed to troubleshoot his printer without any help, and he has no formal computer experience whatsoever.

HN has a long history of patronising the "average user" in the guise of paternal figures who don't realise that what they are doing is belittling the vast majority of tech users. I'm guilty of it myself. But they're capable of a lot more than we think they are.

Ultimately, it comes down to the willingness people have to learn new things. If they're curious enough to think about how things work, they'll be fine.

[Glemllksdf]

I'm not doing this to be patronising, more like telling people or myself that assumptions i make, are just not necessarily true for everyone.

And weirdly enough, a Task like sorting a file with data in it, if you are not a professional, windows offers very if not non single way of doing this. You would need to understand file types, understand that csv can be imported for excel, you need excel, than you need to understand excel how to sort stuff in it.

The ffirst thing I do in Excel is select the pseudo table and click on table -> insert to make it a sortable / real table. I showed this to every one in my Team full of studied CS people because non of them knew this.

[gmueckl]

Well, I didn't mean for this to be patronizing, but rather as a warning that not everybody is at the same level and the spread is huge. I see it often enough.