[lz400]

I just learnt that em dash in a mac is option+shift+hyphen. I hadn't realized it was so difficult and inconvenient, and in the end it looks so similar to the other one: — -. Thin value. It's no surprise humans barely use them. Then why did it get picked up so much by AIs? I'd have imagined it's not in a lot of training data. Print media practices I guess?

[dragonwriter]

> and in the end it looks so similar to the other one:

Maybe if you are looking at it in a monospaced environment like the HN edit window; rendered in a proportional font, hyphens, en-dashes, and em-dashes are quite distinct from eachother.

> It's no surprise humans barely use them. Then why did it get picked up so much by AIs?

It got picked up by AIs because their training corpus includes plenty of professionally published work, not just informal, off-the-cuff communication, and professionally published work uses typographic dashes (em-dashes, en-dashes, and even 2-em- and 3-em-dashes) extensively. (3-em less so in newer works, it having, e.g., dropped out of the recommendations of the Chicago Manual of Style as of 2024.)

[dr_dshiv]

I love em dashes. They are so much less pretentious than colons or semicolons — and they help with flow of speech. I learned that key command a couple years ago and it made me feel so smart. I’ve had my comeuppance but I’m not stopping — just a better way to write

[marssaxman]

Difficult and inconvenient compared to what, I wonder? I've always really liked the Mac OS option-key system, which I found convenient and easy to understand; I sometimes wish I could type that way in linux instead of using compose keys.

[mananaysiempre]

What is it that you like about it specifically? If you’re not picky about the choice of modifier key, you can configure the so-called “level 3 shift key” and have the em dash on the hyphen key at level four (both L3 shift and L2 aka normal shift pressed). For instance, on GNOME Wayland I have “Input Source” = “English (Western European AltGr dead keys)”, “Alternate Characters Key” (GNOME lingo for the L3 shift) = “Right Alt”, so the em dash is RAlt-Shift-hyphen.

[marssaxman]

The option-key layout system was easier to memorize than the compose-key patterns, which I struggle to recall. I couldn't tell you why, I just felt like I got the hang of it easily, while using the compose key system has always been slow and clunky.

I've never heard of a "level 3 shift key"; I'll have to look that up.

[lamasery]

I grew up on Windows, Linux, and other non-Mac machines, only shifting to Macs around age 30.

Within months I was convinced that every default English keyboard I'd ever seen except the Mac one is strictly worse. It bothers me now how hard it is to get a consistent Mac-style keymap on Linux. This is one thing others should for-sure just rip off entirely. It's so much better.

[BeetleB]

It's used a lot in LaTeX and Word. It's not as rare as people make them out to be. It's just that we haven't had a convenient way to enter it in a browser form that some of us (younger folks!) find the em-dash weird.

[hyperhello]

Why is that inconvenient? It’s a hyphen with modifier keys.

[wwalexander]

Apple’s text inputs usually autocorrect double hyphens to em dashes.

[UqWBcuFx6NV4r]

It’s neither difficult nor inconvenient, it’s just new to you.

[yojo]

option + hyphen gives you an en-dash (–), which is easier to type and I am guilty of way overusing/misusing.

[dragonwriter]

The main use of an em-dash can also be done with an en-dash set open, and different style guides have different preferences for which should be used.