[nottorp]

It really depends on the loop, but modern games try their damnedest to ruin the experience.

Number one is of course "free" games, where the loop is infinite and designed for you to give in and get IAPs to accelerate it.

But the problem is older than that. I kind of blame it on a generation of designers that spent a lot of time in world of warcraft and its successors and somehow decided having a slow grind is acceptable in single player games as well.

[throwanem]

World of Warcraft damaged lots of people. My own circle saw a couple of casualties - jobs lost, marriages failed, promising professional careers left by the wayside, all for the sake of more time with that grind.

The fellow I knew who hit it huge in EVE Online was a casualty of another kind. But then, I did know him before, and he really was always pretty much that way.

[nottorp]

That's the obvious part. The non obvious part is ruining game design.

[throwanem]

More than that evidently is non-obvious here. I am mainly concerned about the ruination of people. The fate of some niche and subparadigmatic school of ludic theory moves me little by comparison. (Of course I agree we need the humanities, but these are complex times when difficult choices may have to be made.)

But I appreciate this is more an article for the - what did they call it, for five minutes on Reddit a couple years back? "Shapecels?" That crowd, anyway, the ones who excel at abstract symbol manipulation yet reliably struggle to signify.

These days, with machines automating away the entire market for oldschool, artisanally human "shape rotation," faster than most members of any prior generation would even dare imagine - well, if this were the only thing I thought I could do well, I think I would be very worried.

[nottorp]

> The fate of some niche and subparadigmatic school of ludic theory moves me little by comparison.

Just because you're not interested in video games it doesn't mean they're all bad for your health.

Have you seen that study that says "consuming" "video content" passively no matter the source leads to cognitive impairment, while video games - which are active - don't?

[throwanem]

I haven't said that I'm not interested in video games! I admit these days I go deep rather than broad, but that's not the same at all as saying I don't play them.

That said, while I can't tell with whom you mean to find yourself arguing, I can see by now that's not me. I'll leave you to find an interlocutor better poised to provide the kind of discussion for which you're looking; enjoy your day!

[tayo42]

Pokémon was a slow grind and popular. Diablo was a grind too

[pphysch]

Both games have gameplay loops that were ahead of their time. Relatively free exploration + combat + RNG "loot" constrained by needing to return to town to heal/restock.