[throw0101d]

>> "The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world"

> That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever.

Are there not a lot of toll roads in Japan as well?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_Japan#Tolls

Also, is not the population density fairly high? There's not as much land to spread in low-density car centric suburbs like there is in (say) the US.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Populati...

IMHO cultural bias (and practicality, geographic and economic (low car ownership post-WW2)) is there in Japan, which led to a particular development model, which lends itself to non-car-centric infrastructure.

Contrast: Okinawa, where the US (cultural?) influence is higher and that has highways everywhere and where public transit is apparently not that good.

[pezezin]

> Also, is not the population density fairly high? There's not as much land to spread in low-density car centric suburbs like there is in (say) the US.

LOL no. Outside of the big neighborhoods of the big cities, Japan is endless urban sprawl. I know because I live in a small Japanese city of 40k people and it's just detached houses, small 2-story apartment buildings, a big box stores. Public transportation is almost non-existant and I need to drive my car everyday for everything.

[throw0101d]

> LOL no. Outside of the big neighborhoods of the big cities, Japan is endless urban sprawl.

And how many people live in those areas?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Urban_di...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_weighted_density

Half the population lives in Tokyo (40M), Osaka (19M), and Nagoya (10M); one-third in the Greater Tokyo Area.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg5XHN_25HQ&t=7m38s

How many folks live inside versus outside the Tokyo-Osaka-Fukuoka rail corridor (Tokaido/Sanyo Shinkansens)? Saoporo is probably the next-largest city outside of that stretch.

[johnwalkr]

Tokyo is relatively dense but it's nothing like what you expect from movies or from visiting there for a few days. The majority of people live in buildings 3 storeys or less (above 3 storeys there are a lot more requirements). There's a ton of detached houses even. The overall density of the 23 wards is slightly less than Paris.

When visiting you tend to visit some of the busiest areas and also spend a lot of time on the train. It's tiring and it seems so busy. But since almost every neighbourhood has all amenities and there is no single CBD, when you live there, you realise how much of Tokyo is an endless sea of small apartment buildings with small islands of restaurants and businesses around train stations, plus a handful of larger islands.

The article talks about the railways developing areas around Tokyo. This is actually very interesting and the way it sprawled[1] outwards towards places like Yokohama. Railways made commuter towns with amenities and commuter lines to those towns at the same time, and rented and sold real estate in those towns. Over time the areas in between the terminus of each of these lines (usually Shibuya or Shinjuku) and each town filled in until what you see today.

[1] I think the debate about whether or not Tokyo is/has urban sprawl depends on your definition. If you take it to mean expanding with lower density on the outskirts, it definitely "sprawled", although today it's more filled in. If you take it to mean unplanned low-density, car-centric expansion, it didn't "sprawl" that much. I've seen the terms car-centric sprawl and train-centric sprawl used to discuss the differences.

[pezezin]

Yeah, I know that half the population lives in either the Greater Tokyo Area or the Keihanshin area. But you still have the other half scattered all around the country.

And even within those areas, when you move to the outskirts it is not so dense. Take the train from Narita to central Tokyo and tell me what you see.

[Tor3]

>Are there not a lot of toll roads in Japan as well?

There are, but at least wherever I've been driving or been a passenger, there are alternative roads which are just fine. In general slower, but every so often the toll roads are congested for miles due to a combination of roadwork and a LOT of traffic, which makes them slower than the alternative roads during those times.

As for cars - the Japanese aren't against cars. Many of my neighbors have two cars, particularly dual-income households. And they take very good care of them, as a rule. More than I would - to me a car is just a utility. Not for the Japanese. And people love driving too, at least outside the major cities.

Population density: Technically I live in a town with some 300,000 people. But it used to be nearly a dozen towns until 2006, when Japan decided to do some major restructuring and in many areas a bunch of smaller towns were thrown together to become a larger one. So we're really spread out..

[decafninja]

Seoul is like this too. People look at the transit system and think it’s a model for car-less living. And while it’s fantastic, many Seoulites also love their cars. Those massive clusters of dense highrise apartment buildings you see everywhere? Most sit atop vast underground garage complexes.

[throw0101d]

> There are, but at least wherever I've been driving or been a passenger, there are alternative roads which are just fine.

And there are alternatives to the Interstate highway system in the US, but the since the Interstates have no tolls everything is build around them.

[JKCalhoun]

I have read you also need to prove you have a place to park a car in order to own one. (And as you point out, space is limited.)

[pezezin]

In the villages (村) you don't need to, but anything bigger than that yes, you need a parking lot.

The procedure for the permit in my city is maddening, you need to draw a map of your general area and your parking lot BY HAND, and then several days later a police guy will go there to confirm it visually. They have not invented GIS yet...