[onlyrealcuzzo]

The idea that the AVERAGE person should spend 4 years BOTH not working AND incurring massive amounts of (non-defaultable) debt is bananas.

College either needs to be 1) way cheaper, 2) mainly for the state-subsidized exceptional and independently wealthy, or 3) move to a different model.

We have too many colleges LARPing as Harvard, and too few colleges even attempting to be affordable, practical, or actually deliver value to the ordinary person.

[bashtoni]

Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all. Humanities subjects are just as valid a topic of study as STEM.

A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements, now most people think you are crazy for suggesting such a thing. I think you can trace a lot of the problems in the western world back to this.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

Lots of things benefit society and don't cost $40k per year per person in subsidies - mainly to the upper middle class.

[lux-lux-lux]

Strange how I never see this line deployed against the mortgage interest deduction or health care for wealthy retirees, both of which are considerably more expensive.

Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

> mortgage interest deduction

By far the worst offender.

> health care for wealthy retirees

Theoretically, they paid into the system to get their dues.

> Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI.

There's evidence at the State level, at least in many states, it does not pay for itself.

[triceratops]

Then at the very least college debt should be dischargeable in bankruptcy the way people can walk away from their mortgage.

[bsder]

Agreed. The idiotic law not allowing college debt to be cleared by bankruptcy is the primary reason why college has gotten so expensive.

[votepaunchy]

Then treat college debt like any other loan instead of subsidies backstopped with government bailouts.

[gottorf]

> Strange how I never see this line deployed against the mortgage interest deduction or health care for wealthy retirees

For what it's worth, I see arguments like this all the time. Might just be the corner of the information ecosystem you hang out in.

> Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI.

Maybe it did in the past, where the greatest marginal gains were. Does it still hold true now? Over a third of the US has a bachelor's degree. Is there a reliably positive ROI to society in taking that third to, say, half?

[gottorf]

> Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all

> A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements

I don't believe those strong assertions you're making were uncontroversial at any time, and are likely objectively less true now than they were in the past.

[triceratops]

You're both right. College is beneficial to society. And it costs way too much to deliver right now.

You could copy-paste these statements to describe American healthcare vs European healthcare and get a very different reaction. Even though it's true for that field too.

Why the actual fuck does a humanities degree cost anywhere near as much as an engineering degree? Literally all you need is some professors and a space to teach in. You could run them in co-working spaces, parks (weather permitting), or coffee shops ffs, with no administrative staff or other bloat. (For real: small seminars in a coffee shop or a public park would be dope)

Education is beneficial to society and making it cheaper makes it more widely accessible. You and the person you responded to actually agree on a lot.

[tracker1]

There have been several attempts to raise the bar for Community Colleges to offer Bachelors programs... the existing universities and entrenched professional programs have fought it tooth and nail.

My daughter got her associates carrying no debt... but has struggled to get into an appropriate higher level program. She's currently working PT in two jobs, one as a prep cook in a high end eatery and as a park associate at the local zoo. Neither is offering a particularly compelling pay or benefits that most jobs should offer IMO.

I'm with you on college though, in terms of there should be way cheaper options all around... I think there should even be grant programs for better vocational/trade programs as an alternative path for Bachelors class degrees.

[JumpCrisscross]

Waterloo University sort of nails the balance with their focus on constant, paid internships.

[mcmcmc]

So community colleges?

[nebula8804]

God I wish community college would be subsidized. Some states now cover it for your first degree which is a great start and some also are now starting to subsidize courses for retirees but man I would so love to just go and do like random courses I have no intention of pursuing a career in.

European universities are not resorts like in the US and community college keep that small footprint mentality as well. They have done it right. Focus on the education and keep costs lower. I have friends in Europe that work for a few years then just take time off and study something that interests them in their subsidized universities and I am so jealous because their costs are so low.

When I went to community college (and then university) there were a few moments where I actually wasn't treading water in my CS degree and I was able to take a wide variety of classes. They were some of the happiest moments of my life.

Recently visited LA and walked around LACC during the evening. The campus is enormous (and famously was the scene for the TV show Community). I just thought of the enormous variety of subjects being taught, imagine if that was accessible to anyone when they desired.

[secabeen]

They are! The State of California contributes the following to the system: -- Total CCC Funding Is $20 Billion in 2026-27 Under Governor’s Budget.

https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2026/5150/2026-27_CCC_030506.pdf

[musicale]

Isn't LACC subsidized ($46/unit resident tuition seems pretty good)?

[nebula8804]

Yes just rechecked and you are right. I am not a CA native (was just visiting LA) and so happy to see that this is available. I originally thought they just subsidized degrees for only "first degree" seeking students. Maybe I need to move to LA. My local CC is $225 per credit for in state residents.

[MiguelX413]

That's absolutely not the point of higher education, don't drag it down to the level of industry please.