[bluegatty]

Kotlin is a few tweaks on top of Java, most of which aren't relevant anymore, and it's not strictly better in most ways other than saving a few keystrokes (and preference).

It's a little bit nicer to write but that's almost irrelevant.

It also comes with some runtime cruft.

In reality there is no Kotlin without Java, which means most projects end up a bit 'dual'; every single Kotlin project we've had (except Android) folded back onto Java. Even Scala wasn't worth it, though that's a different question.

[olcay_]

There definitely is Kotlin without Java, and you can compile Kotlin code for use in jvm, ios/ipados/macos, android, wasm/js, and native.

[bluegatty]

Technically yes, but I don't think it could exist without Java.

[vips7L]

You can't even read a file in Kotlin without Java.

[drzaiusx11]

Not true today anymore, but definitely true for a lot of its history.

[vips7L]

Really? I know there's kotlin.io.* but afaik that doesn't work on KNative or KJS.

[bluegatty]

thats pretty much what I mean, yes.