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by rustystump 69 days ago
Interesting you say not vs never. It seems this kid thought it was a time where violence was needed. The question i always ask in these situations is about what the line would be that would justify violence?

Things like healthcare, crime, existential ai, have very grey lines as it isnt obvious when one needs to flip the table. How broken must a system be?
2 comments
Aeolun 69 days ago
> what the line would be that would justify violence

It doesn’t matter where we think the line should be drawn, only where those much worse off draw it.

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jmull 69 days ago
Violence is an extreme failure state.

If your goal is to improve the system then you always want to move away from it.

Probably a reasonable justification would be self-defense, committing violence to stop worse violence. (Preemptive violence is not self-defense.)

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rustystump 69 days ago
But that is the kicker. As the sister comment said it matters a great deal what others do.

At some point a broken system enacts soft violence on people. So it isnt surprising people act out when they think survival is at stake. With healthcare, it really can be. But where is the line? When someone you know dies? 10 people?

It is messy.

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jakeydus 69 days ago
RadioLab did a phenomenal series on illegal immigration years ago. One thing that stuck out to me and has stayed with me ever since was an interview they did with a woman who had been deported multiple times, risked her life multiple times, denied a visa and asylum multiple times. They asked her why she kept trying to get across the border and she said that the alternative was death for her and her family.

Whether or not she was being honest I don't know. But it did make me realize that the broken system has created an all-or-nothing choice for so many people. No punishment or policy could ever outweigh the alternative for them, so you'll never be able to stop immigration, illegal or not.

I'm sure I'm not doing the argument justice, but your comment reminded me of it.

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jmull 69 days ago
It's not surprising that violence begets violence, in an escalating cycle. But it doesn't end with a better system.

If your goal is a better system, you'll be looking hard for ways to move away from violence, not justifications to escalate it.

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