[bogzz]

The loom, the steam engine, or the airplane did not cause "captains of industry" to publicly salivate over anticipating being able to fire their knowledge workers who invested time, money, and effort into becoming qualified for the jobs they're now constantly in fear of losing.

The social contract is being broken. Being broken just on paper, just on the hopes that it can be broken for good.

[thankyoufriend]

> The loom (...) did not cause "captains of industry" to publicly salivate over anticipating being able to fire their knowledge workers who invested time, money, and effort into becoming qualified for the jobs they're now constantly in fear of losing.

It absolutely did. Factory owners used their clout to put workers out of the job and then lobbied for military aid and capital punishment instead of negotiating with the workers. IMO, the only tactic for worker that has EVER had lasting success is solidarity through some form of unionization.

Read "Blood in the Machine" if you want to see what happened to the losers of the industrial revolution. The book does contain some fictional embellishments but that is explained up front, and noted when it comes up.

[antonvs]

Those captains of industry almost certainly salivated over the idea of not needing weavers etc. any more. Is the difference you're seeing just that they're doing that publicly now?

[bogzz]

The weavers had a rough go of it for sure, but at least they did not have to spend 4 years of their early adulthood being intellectually challenged in a higher education institution, often going into debt, in order to become qualified weavers.

[thankyoufriend]

Actually it was 7 years of physical training that deformed their bodies:

"But the work left the body callused, bent, and molded. You could tell a cropper by his enormous forearms and by the “hoof” of callused skin that built up on his wrist. In the spring of 1811, George was in his early twenties, and he’d spent his post-adolescent life learning the trade. Seven years of hard, exacting labor; seven years of paying his dues. That led to pride and attachment to the work, to a brotherhood, to an identity."

Merchant, Brian. Blood in the Machine: The Origins of the Rebellion against Big Tech. Little Brown & Co. (ADS), 2024.

[bogzz]

Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding! Let me pivot then-- I still argue that it is a fundamentally different case when it comes to LLMs.

1. Threatening young and educated people with not being able to realize the potential that they believed they were building for themselves is toying with social uprising.

2. Weaving is an apt example of redundancy on account of technological innovation but it's a poor comparison to LLMs where the narrative is that they will continue to get better until they approach a general intelligence level which would put a much much higher percentage of the population at risk of losing their jobs. Again, the segment of the population that has invested most into their skills, and will be the most angry and capable of organizing should that come to pass.

Weaving doesn't as aptly represent the core of what we as a species are good at and excel at, as knowledge work does.

[thankyoufriend]

1. This is not enough on it's own for social uprising, but it may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I feel a lot of the general vibe in the US is summed up in this excerpt from "All Hail" by The Devil Makes Three:

"Laugh if you want to, really is kinda funny

'Cause the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy

Herd's stampeding now, fences gone

Television is always on and it says "Save the children, but drop the bomb

Replace the word 'right' now with the word 'wrong'

Hey, there's a big sale on Tuesday, get it before it's gone

Get a picture with the four horsemen for a nominal sum

Now that they got everything, they'd like to sell you some!

All hail, all hail, to the greatest of sales

Everything in sight's got to be sold

All hail, all hail, 'cause it's to work or to jail

Man, they're closing them doors on the world"

Closing them doors on the world aka pulling the ladder up behind them is exactly what is happening, and has been happening, to young white Americans for decades now, and young Americans of color since forever.

2. Weaving is an ancestor of programming so I feel it's an apt comparison to discussions of modern technology, as much as any historic profession can be. But to more specifically address your point about continuing to get better and putting more of the population at risk of job loss, there were multiple innovations within the textile industry that worked together to automate different portions of the industry. The point is similar to the poem "First They Came" by Martin Niemöller, where it starts somewhere but it will come for all of us. So focusing on whether or not weaving specifically is a good comparison to LLMs misses the point that if we don't band together as workers, we will eventually be overpowered by capital, foregoing any discussion about the morality of capitalism but just looking at eternal struggle of profit incentives vs wages.

[bluefirebrand]

No, the difference is that people used to kick down their doors and boot stomp their heads when they got this greedy about it

[antonvs]

TIL I'm a conservative. I yearn to return to the old ways.

[Throaway199999]

OH but they did. Captains of industry always are on the lookout to drive down labor (its their #1 cost).