[oooyay]

Both of these camera systems also usually come with a kangaroo civil court of sorts. Last time I looked at red light camera distribution in Texas it was also fairly obvious that they were only installing them in poorer areas.

These systems were largely disliked bipartisanly because of those factors.

[SoftTalker]

They install them where the data show that people are running red lights.

[ceejayoz]

Where the data shows people are getting caught running red lights.

Which isn't necessarily where the most incidents are.

[loeg]

If they only installed them based on collision/injury data, and that data identified mostly poor areas, you would be ok with it? Because this is what the data finds over and over. The people most harmed by red light running are the poor people who live in these neighborhoods.

[ceejayoz]

Maybe!

I might question the benefits of making the poor area even poorer via fines they likely can't afford. I might wonder if there are confounding factors like poorly maintained roads and vehicles at play. I might wonder if the yellow lights have the same timing as in the suburbs.

[loeg]

Are the small fines for red light violations costlier, or the impact on health and life from the collisions red light running inevitably causes? I think letting poor areas be high traffic injury areas through deliberate neglect is even costlier to the poor who live there than red light fines.

[whimsicalism]

I might question why you are so opposed to interventions that save the lives of people in poorer neighborhoods (disproportionately not owners of cars).

[ceejayoz]

I question the premise that it will.

[DANmode]

> Because this is what the data finds over and over.

So link it.

[cucumber3732842]

In my experience it's the rich areas chock full o' Karens that get the latest and greatest in jackbootery because they have all the money for the new hotness, no real problems to divert their attention and almost nobody who's ever been on the business end of government enforcement so they don't see any real problem with dispensing it at the drop of a hat.

[banannaise]

Any dataset involving police actions will show high concentrations in poor areas because that's where police patrol the most and where they're most likely to crack down on behaviors that might be allowed to slide elsewhere (in part due to the racial demographics of those areas).

[whimsicalism]

Usually allocation decisions are related to actual car/pedestrian fatality/injury counts + trial placements and measurements. Either way, wouldn't you be in favor of measures that remove police from overpoliced poor neighborhoods in favor of a technology focusing on traffic safety enforcement?

[Zigurd]

They shorten the yellow light interval to gain more revenue. It's an irresistible corruption when working on a revenue share.

[loeg]

You're taking something that has happened at least once and extrapolating it to every situation; this isn't accurate.

[Zigurd]

Show me one big city PD that isn't corrupt enough that this is just a minor corruption snack to them.

[ImPostingOnHN]

The police aren't removed, they're still there, just with more technology, more information, and more power now.

[piperswe]

Aren’t red light cameras unenforceable in Texas?

[oooyay]

They are potentially now, but when I lived there (~a decade ago) they were not and this was the battle we were fighting as neighborhoods and communities. At the height of it they couldn't take your drivers license but the company could file an injunction preventing you from renewing your drivers license over civil penalties.