[stevage]

>My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do.

The culture around this varies a lot. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. Virtually all bike paths are "shared", and many have signs telling you to ring your bell when approaching pedestrians - you're not telling them to move out of the way, you're telling them that you're there.

In practice, I tend to use one ding to mean "I'm here" and multiple dings to mean "you're on the wrong side of the path and need to move".

But in no situation do I rely on a bike bell to avoid an accident.

[Waterluvian]

I've always wanted two horns in my car: one that toots with a smile and a tip of the hat, and one that heralds your pending demise. It sounds like Australia cycle bell culture does that with short vs. long bell ding-a-lings.

Which is kind of how it has worked with cars, except I find that more and more cars have a style of horn that's hard to control with the necessary precision. Maybe this is Canadian culture but I get very anxious that my horn will honk for a millisecond too long and the poor victim will think I'm angry at them.

[nhecker]

I can corroborate this finding -- I think the horn switch is just a logic-level digital switch going into one or more MCUs somewhere, subjected to all manner of latency and (probably) CANBUS jitter. It's not great. Trying to send Morse, or even a quick 'toot toot' results in a garbled mangled mess, and I find that very annoying. My early cars & motorbike had what felt like direct, switched control over power to the horn, those were great to use. I've debated installing a dedicated pushbutton rated for the amperage or at least controlling a solenoid somewhere that would power the horn.

As an experiment, I've found that you can reliably detect the presence of crummy horn control by trying to pulse the horn for the shortest amount of time possible. The shorter my push on the horn button gets, the more likely it is that the timing will feel wrong somehow, or the horn doesn't even sound at all.

I've definitely tried friendly beeps at friends or neighbors and it came out sounding like an angry honk.

[dingaling]

The Ineos Grenadier 4x4 has a 'toot' function for cyclists, largely because Ineos is a sponsor of a cycling team.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PbGp24MIRDQ

[skeeter2020]

go somewhere appropriate and do a little practice with the friendly multi-tap vs. the two-hand push!

adding on a wave helps too; I wish more drivers waved...

[jkestner]

Reminds me of a mini-course I took on sound design. Lots of exercises in trying to squeeze expression out of a limited palette. Not too different from LEDs, but of course we have different cultural references for audio. Neat subject.

[Waterluvian]

I hate how many cars I see these days with windows so tinted that eye contact and waves are impossible.

It feels dangerous to be unable to see the driver through their side window (eg. 4-way stop eye contact on who goes)

[jkestner]

Agreed! It's a small but satisfying interaction to have that coordination and unspoken communication with other drivers at a 4-way stop.

I've taught my kids when crossing the street to make eye contact with drivers to make sure they see you. Drivers with smartphones unfortunately add to the challenge.

[SoftTalker]

Some large trucks have that. A "city horn" that is like a normal car horn, and the traditional air horn that will rattle your windows.

[fusslo]

my own experience is that in the city the bell was to alert people that I think aren't paying attention to me and may be about to step into the bike lane. 100% like you said, I'm letting someone know I'm there

Now that I moved to the country with a comprehensive rails-to-trail network, I thank all the cyclists that use the bell to let me know they're coming up behind me. What really irks me is the dudes going 30+mph silently coming up behind me, passing less than 2' from my dog (who is at my side) when there's PLENTY of room to give me space. No, we can't hear them coming all the time. Yes, it's startling, rude, and dangerous for all of us.

[namibj]

In Germany it's illegal to drive bikes that assist beyond 28km/h (about 20mph) in what are true bike paths (which can be built as lanes! And, notably, they can be marked as virtual-lane-shared (pictogram side by side with a vertical divider) or as true shared (pictogram above and below at a horizontal divider), if pedestrians are also allowed to use them.

An ancient gas-e-bike rating is allowed on them outside city limits but iirc those bikes are exceedingly rare since even before e-bikes became truly mainstream.

[thewebguyd]

> you're telling them that you're there.

Which, IMO is important. Even if they aren't in your way, it can help avoid an accident. If you're on any sort of nicer, well maintained road bike, it's going to be near silent. I've startled pedestrians on mine, so I now ring my bell every time I'm approaching someone, not as a "get out of my way" signal but more of a "hey! I'm coming up behind you, don't get startled and jump into my path"

Generally though, if its a particularly crowded path, I just ride in the road. In stop and go city traffic I'm usually going as fast if not faster than traffic anyway.

[skeeter2020]

Your right and I think local culture gets the difference between the escalating "move over! I've rung my bell 5 times already" vs. the light courtesy "coming up from behind" ring

[ralferoo]

I prefer to slow down and actually just say hello to them, they'll usually say sorry and I'm back on my way again. Just ringing a bell, or worse a horn, scares them and they need to turn round to figure out where you are and whether you're about to squash them. I don't feel I have the right to do that to someone just out enjoying a peaceful walk.

On the other hand, I've been angered by dog owners when running who just take up the entire pavement. A couple of weeks ago, I had one guy coming towards me force me to come to a complete stop when I was running flat out, because he couldn't be bothered to control his dogs. He was in the centre of the pavement, and the 2 dogs were at the extreme edges with tight enough leads between him and the dogs, so it'd have tripped me up if I'd tried to jump them. He knew full well I was heading that way, but in the 10 seconds since we had made eye contact, he was clearly determined not to reign his dogs in, and it was only when I was stopped and so he had to reign them in to continuing walking past that I was able to keep using the pavement.

[stevage]

>Just ringing a bell, or worse a horn, scares them and they need to turn round to figure out where you are and whether you're about to squash them. I don't feel I have the right to do that to someone just out enjoying a peaceful walk.

Yes, it's very context-dependent. I'm going to behave very differently in an area where there are hundreds of cyclists every hour compared to a place where there might be one or fewer.

The real trick with bell ringing is to try to get the distance right. Too far away and they won't hear. Too close and it might startle them, and they won't have enough time to react properly.

[Fricken]

It's legally mandated in my city so I guess the polite thing to do is ring a bell, you know, just stick to the protocol, for everyone's sake. A bell however seems at least as likely to startle someone into behaving erratically as not.

As far as the pedestrian's safety is concerned what matters is either giving them a wide berth or slowing right down when passing.

Whether on a bike or not I'm sick of all the modern world's beeping and ringing and buzzing and blaring and if I'm wearing noise cancelling headphones that means I don't want to hear it. Don't tell you're being annoying for my own good because you aren't.

[namibj]

First reaction to warning tone should always be to (safely!) stop and assess.

Considering that the persons involved can't be expected to not be deaf, or functionally so via e.g. headphones, and thus you always have to be able to brake anyways. Running onto a driving lane (be it bikes or cars doesn't matter) without looking especially if the direction you didn't look just gave an audible warning is always reckless.