[mmastrac]

The mostly likely quantum attack on Bitcoin will be a catastrophic transfer of large wallets to burn addresses along with a massive short position. No need to worry about washing stolen coins when you can just enjoy your "well timed" legal short position's windfall.

[nehan]

two things:

1) Short markets in Bitcoin don't have unlimited depth, and the centralized ones are KYC'd so there's some risk there 2) What if it doesn't tank the price? One thing people have suggested is just burning all the vulnerable coins[1]; it reduces supply so maybe the price will... go up? The point is there's uncertainty.

[1] https://x.com/lostbutlucky/status/2040878873731080681

[tshaddox]

I’m pretty sure the hope isn’t that burning some coins tanks the price. The point is that publicly demonstrating that you can crack wallet keys is what tanks the price.

[hananova]

I don't see how 1 is any issue at all. Using a computer to make the intended bitcoin calculations much faster than anyone else possibly can is entirely within the rules of how bitcoin works.

It will also tank the price because by doing it, you have demonstrated you have complete control of bitcoin transfers, you can transfer bitcoins from anywhere to anywhere else at any time, and that there is no way to flag it as illegitimate because mathematically you're just providing the correct numbers.

[dodobirdlord]

What risk are you envisioning in #1?

[nehan]

Sorry I wasn't clear there. Because most of the short-depth is controlled by centralized exchanges, there's a risk you won't be able to actualize your short (withdraw, either in crypto or to a bank account), even if it's successful -- they could just block you from withdrawing and/or report you for fraud.

[dodobirdlord]

Does anyone happen to know if it is settled law in the United States that transferring bitcoins using a cracked key is a criminal act? It’s not immediately obvious to me that it would be covered by the CFAA.

[tshaddox]

I would be surprised if the U.S. legal system requires itself to list every possible mechanism by which someone might steal money.

[Terr_]

"Darn it, he's right, there's nothing in the rules here saying a dog can't play basketball or fetch money out of a bank vault..."

[hananova]

Bitcoins aren't money.

[greyface-]

18 U.S.C. § 2311 defines "money" in the context of stolen property as:

> the legal tender of the United States or of any foreign country, or any counterfeit thereof

Bitcoin has, at times, met this standard by being the legal tender of a foreign country.

[hananova]

Wait, does that mean that counterfeit money is legally money in the US?

[greyface-]

For the purpose of charging someone with a crime under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 113, yes.

[wmf]

They're property which is also illegal to steal.

[tshaddox]

Good luck convincing the government that you aren’t guilty of money laundering because you used bitcoins.

[hananova]

It’d be money laundering because money went in on one end, and money came out at the other end. Bitcoin would’ve been the vehicle yes. Still not money though.

Something doesn’t have to be money to be involved in money laundering, obviously.

[tshaddox]

Your legal analysis is very much incorrect. The U.S. will prosecute you for money laundering if you e.g. provide an illegal service, receive payment for that illegal service in bitcoins, then use a bitcoin mixing service, and then finally exchange your post-mixed bitcoins for goods. This is money laundering, despite there being no other money (like dollars) involved any step along the way.

In fact, the U.S. has prosecuted and convicted people for money laundering simply for operating the bitcoin mixing service, which is clearly just bitcoins in and bitcoins out.

[PowerElectronix]

It's easy to argue that anyone can operate any wallet without restrictions but just pulling the right key to it.

Every participant knows and accepts it the moment they pull a random key and start operating the corresponding wallet.

[shagie]

Would going for the bitcoin puzzle wallets be a better demonstration of "it's broken" without needing to do anything fancy?

https://btcpuzzle.info/

If all of them went to "solved" at once or in short order I believe that would cause sufficient panic without worry of stealing or burning.

[le-mark]

This would be the case if many people get the quantum “crack” at the same time. Since it would enable a pre-image attack, one actor could selectively mine blocks for a considerable time until others catch up. This could be going on now.

[PowerElectronix]

Yeah, sway better strategy than dowing the world bitcoin is bust while holding it short would be to just mine blocks here and there, to steal from inactive wallets, etc.

I'd drain as much wealth from the network without being detected instead of going guns blazing.

[dboreham]

Probably not since quantum computers don't exist.

[CyberDildonics]

Washing coins is not too difficult, you could split up values into lots of addresses and use them to buy other coins on other chains.

[Jerrrrrrrry]

Interesting, considering the extra liability / (stability) volatility that bitcoin options provide when making ROI and hashrate calculations, this can be a triple threat.

Like publicly destroying ivory /poppy stockpiles while simultaneously holding puts/futures on correlating pharmaceutical financial instruments.