[pimlottc]

I agree, I think the idea of products being done is a temporary illusion. Older analog technology needed a lot more maintenance over time. I doubt someone in the 1970s would agree with this; most things then needed to be regularly mended, fixed, tuned, serviced, repaired, refilled, what have you.

It’s only in the last few decades that materials and manufacturing have gotten good enough that you can expect gadgets to “just work” without regular maintenance. And we’ve also had products cheap enough that people normally throw them out rather than maintaining them.

[greedo]

I don't agree. Older tech was simpler, and often more reliable. They didn't depend on being able to connect to a networked time clock for sync, didn't need networking period. Today's systems are inherently fragile.

I grew up in the 70's. About the only thing I would say is less fragile are cars. Today's cars are just better in so many ways but are unmaintainable by the average user.

And people throw out things instead of repairing them because they don't know how. But that's changing as self-repair movements have taught millions. For example, the Kitchen Aid mixer. The original, built by Hobart and acquired by KitchenAid was a tank. However it had a sacrificial gear and people said that was a flaw because they didn't understand the purpose of sheer pins or sacrificial gears. Now it's pretty well understood thanks to YouTubers like Mr. Mixer that repairing these is easy peezy.

[robinsonb5]

> And people throw out things instead of repairing them because they don't know how.

Part of it is the materials used now, though - many things get thrown out because the plastic bodyshell got old and brittle, and broke. (Plastic is particularly difficult to repair because the break usually presents very little surface area for glueing.)

[pimlottc]

I think I was unclear. I’m not saying now is better. What I meant is there was a short period, perhaps late 90s to early 2010s, when electronic devices became sophisticated and reliable enough to “just work” in perpetuity, but before everything was internet connected and subscription-based.

Cars are perhaps the best example. Before this that time, you’d expect to do much more maintenance and you’d be impressed to get 100k miles out of it. Now it’s not unusual to get to 200k miles or more, but increasingly you have to deal with firmware upgrades and pay a monthly fee for advanced features.

Aside from this brief period, devices either required more maintenance and replacement (pre-90s) or updates and subscriptions (now).

[greedo]

Can you provide some examples from this time period? I'm having trouble squaring your statement with things like the Red Ring of Death with the X-Box etc.

[bombcar]

Cars are actually surprisingly maintainable by an "average" user - if you maintain them the same way the repair shops do - replacing parts.

What old cars had was the ability to fix things without replacing parts - but most of those kinds of repairs (think: adjusting points, etc) are no longer necessary at all.

A modern car tells you what is wrong (usually) and you can have an auto parts store read the codes, search YouTube for a video on it, and order parts and replace it yourself.

You need to go back pretty far to find vehicles that can be repaired by the side of the road in Outer Mongolia with nothing but a hammer and a bag of random pieces of metal (iirc, this was in the extended features of Planet Earth, maybe the Snow Leopard episode - sadly, not about macOS at all ;).

[Fwirt]

Yes and no - while it's still simple enough to replace parts in some cases, and said parts are usually easy enough to track down, manufacturers are starting to go the Apple route and lock the ECU to a given part, or require what boils down to a very expensive dongle to perform even simple maintenance procedures. Some of this is due to an actual need to recalibrate the vehicle due to minute differences in performance between parts, other cases are clearly laziness or malice.

For example, some modern Hyundai models require a very expensive ECU reprogramming tool to... release the electronic parking brake. So that you can change brake pads, a job that is normally well within the reach of anyone willing to get their hands dirty. I've seen suburban moms be shocked by how simple it is. And yet some vehicles now require a service at the dealership to change brake pads because they are the only ones who can command a parking brake unlock. What was wrong with the old pull handle or floor pedal parking brakes?

You can't tell me that all the features of an ECU reader couldn't be programmed into a modern head unit. The stereo is already on the CAN bus, why doesn't the stereo just pop up an alert that says e.g. "VSS Malfunction", "Oxygen Sensor Malfunction" instead of the cryptic check engine light requiring a special tool? Why don't our vehicles have a "maintenance mode" built into the head unit that can clear codes and recalibrate injector timings?

Even on early 2000s vehicles, there were usually procedures to do things like reprogramming key fobs by doing arcane things like cycling the key in the ignition 5 times while holding the brake pedal down. Old PCs had beep codes or blinkenlichten to tell you what the problem was when they couldn't POST, the only reason modern vehicles can't do the same is that automakers are looking for new revenue streams amid shrinking margins.

And this is aside from the fact that we have optimized for ease of construction rather than ease of repair, I saw a picture from a mechanic friend who works at a dealership recently, to replace a camshaft actuator on a modern Ford Bronco they had to lift the entire cab off the chassis. While I have seen home mechanics lift a cab a foot or two to access a part, it's well outside the ability of the average person to crane one of the heaviest parts of their vehicle several feet in the air.