[6510]

Calling it a resource suggests you don't contribute. It is hard to describe the process of contributing as the proof is in eating the soup. I could both describe it as easy to get started and a bureaucratic nightmare. Most editors are oblivious to the many guidelines which is specially interesting for long term frequent editors. This is the specific guideline of interest for your comment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules

I didn't write it, I don't agree with it but this is how it is.

[lkey]

This rule, by itself, wouldn't pass muster in any ARBCOM proceeding I've ever witnessed, but if you've seen it work then by all means post a link to the proceedings.

[6510]

In the end, the only question that one should need to ask is: 'will this action or change I'm about to execute be the right thing to do for this project?'

It is not even required to know any of the rules or guidelines and they are just articles that you can edit.

It's rather fascinating actually.

If things are judged by their creator you are left with nothing to judge the creator by. If you do it by their work the process becomes circular. Some will always be wrong, some always right, regardless what they say.

[lkey]

If you have a shallow understanding of the project, as Bryan clearly does, then you are incapable of answering that question.

And while you are right in some sense, the rules that have sprung up over the years are information about what the community decided 'right' was at the time.

> rules or guidelines and they are just articles that you can edit.

? No, you [a random hn user popping over to try what you suggested] cannot edit those pages, they are meta and semi-protected, last I checked. You, confirmed wikipedian 6510, can, assuming you are fine getting a reverted and a slap on the wrist.

In this case, the only thing noteworthy about this incident [an AfD I assume] is that included a rather entitled bot, rather than the usual entitled person.

[Kim_Bruning]

To be absolutely fair to Bryan, their understanding appears to be improving rapidly with leaps and bounds, and they are being invited to help with improving policy on this.

[6510]

Depends what modifications of the guideline you suggest. If you have somewhat radical ideas an essay is probably a better idea.

To clarify, I think the line between user and LLM contributions will get increasingly blurry. If they are constructive contributions it shouldn't make a difference.

Say I have an LLM check an article with some proof reading prompt and it suggests 50 small changes that look constructive to me. Should I modify the article now?

[Kim_Bruning]

I mostly agree. It's too bad that they had to lock down some of the policies against drive-by vandalism, but in the main they're still supposed to be editable. I used to edit them quite a bit. It's basically part of the workflow : if you learn something: document it. (at least from my descriptive perspective; others may disagree)

Turns out AAA banks and high tech industry also like this idea, so I've been lucky enough to be a consultant on process documentation there too.

Here's one document that seems to be editable logged out at least: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD,_revert,_discus... See if you can find my edits on it!

[Kim_Bruning]

> This rule, by itself, wouldn't pass muster in any ARBCOM proceeding I've ever witnessed, but if you've seen it work then by all means post a link to the proceedings.

I don't know that I've directly argued for IAR at ARBCOM, it's been too long ago. But my account hasn't been banned yet (despite all my shenanigans ;-) , which probably goes a long way towards some sort of proof.

To be sure, the actual rule is:

"If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it. "

The first part is REALLY important. It says the mission is more important than the minutiae, not that you have a get out of jail free card for purely random acts.

It's a bureaucratic tiebreak basically. Things like "I'm testing a new process" , or "I got local consensus for this" , or "This looks a lot prettier than the original version, right?" ... are all arguments why your improvement or maintenance action may be valid; even if the small-print says otherwise. Even so, beware chesterton's fence. Like with jazz, it's a good idea to get a good grip on the theory before you leap into improvisation.

That, and, if you mean well, you're supposed to be able to get away with a lot anyway. Just so long as you listen to people!