[dlubarov]

I'm not sure what the point is of piling on different accusations. Only one has any evidence, but let's just imagine for the sake of argument that they're all true. Then Israel has at least several criminals, just like every other country on the planet.

Is the idea that it's okay to post misinformation about Israelis because Israelis are bad? If I can identify several Canadian criminals, then since we've established that Canadians are bad people, is it fine to post misinformation about other Canadians?

[TimorousBestie]

To reassert the lost context, here is the original claim and counter-claim:

>>> Maybe if Israel stopped violently expropriating Arab lands, and assaulting and raping Arabs without consequences. It’s really not that complicated.

>> This is nonsense and you know it.

It’s apparent from the copious evidence presented here (with which you do not engage) that the original claim was, in fact, not nonsense. A real counter-argument would show 1) that these events did not occur or 2) that there were consequences for the assailants.

> Then Israel has at least several criminals, just like every other country on the planet.

Irrelevant false balance on a literally global scale. May I use this example in the logic text I’ve been workshopping?

[dlubarov]

The nonsense is the application of impossible standards like "Israel should have zero criminals" or "Israel should have a successful conviction for every suspected crime, never mind evidentiary standards".

If someone wants to make a serious argument about a systematic problem in Israel, that requires data, not a few accusations. For example, at least 10 of 110 released hostages were reportedly sexually assaulted in Hamas captivity [1], and there were zero arrests for it.

If Gazan detainees in Israeli custody experienced SA at the same rate, that would be over a thousand cases of SA. The parent also broadened their search to include SA allegations against Israelis in the West Bank, so they would need to show ~300k cases just to argue equivalence.

If we were to accept all the parent's sources as reliable, that's 12 reported cases of SA. They're 0.004% of the way there.

[1] https://apnews.com/article/sexual-assault-hamas-oct-7-attack...

[TimorousBestie]

> The nonsense is the application of impossible standards like "Israel should have zero criminals" or "Israel should have a successful conviction for every suspected crime, never mind evidentiary standards".

This is an aggressive misreading of OP. Many countries’ militaries are routinely criticized for the sexual assault perpetrated by their soldiers. When US soldiers do it in Okinawa, for example, they can and have been turned over to local authorities, and their actions are disavowed. [1] Criticism of this pattern of sexual assault in Okinawa is not a call for the military to uphold some “impossible standard.”

If you want to try again to generate a valid counter-argument to OP you need to research SA committed by IDF soldiers and demonstrate that it falls under either 1) or 2) above, or some other form of logical refutation. Presenting yet more data about Hamas is neither effective nor persuasive to that end.

[1] https://www.stripes.com/theaters/asia_pacific/2024-09-24/mar...

[dlubarov]

> This is an aggressive misreading of OP.

The original claim was that terrorists might stop attacking Israel if it stopped "assaulting and raping Arabs without consequences". So which way are we to read it?

- Israel is being held to an impossible standard of zero crime, or a 100% conviction rate for suspected crimes.

- Or Israel is being accused of having a prolific, systematic problem, with no data to support the accusation.

[oa335]

> Israel is being accused of having a prolific, systematic problem,

This is indeed my assertion.

> no data to support the accusation.

Given that you video evidence of a rape along with the documented injuries of the survivor doesn’t meet your evidentiary standards, I doubt that anything would actually convince you, but it’s well documented that Israeli’s act with impunity against Palestinians in a number of contexts.

E.g.

“3% of the investigations (into settler violence) ended with a conviction”

https://www.yesh-din.org/en/data-sheet-law-enforcement-on-is...