what do governments get out of this? Like I get it from ad/commercial perspective, but I don't see how this is highly unpopular from governments and still being implemented
Seems like even under young voters more people support it than being against it; 30% of people aged 18-23 are strongly in favor, 57% of people in that age group supports it.
I wonder why? Maybe these types of surveys don’t consider the implementation / what you need to give up in order to have age verification?
Because the internet, for all it's good, has caused society and individuals some pretty serious problems. I don't like the idea of mandatory age verification, but having unrestricted internet access as a kid was objectively bad for me and many of the people I know.
I don't think surveys like this are a meaningful indicator of societal attitudes.
"age verification" is not unlike "DEI" in that everyone will have different schemas about what it is and how it will be assumed to be implemented. We're not learning anything about the public unless we try to pose the question more directly.
Perhaps the voting population should first be made acutely aware of the extent of surveillance they are under, and how much age verification would expand that surveillance, and then be asked again.
They'll claim they already "know", but watch their opinion change after they get paper mail with a list of recently visited websites, or their words written on public or unencrypted chats, or their movement history thanks to phone spyware.
That's likely, but only if it's possible to materially articulate some specific negative ways in which age verification data is actually being used.
You and I can strongly suspect that there's a significant downside to these providers having so much sensitive personal data but, until that is proven, the voting population will only see the upside.
The death of online anonymity isn't negative and specific enough?
People understand this intuitively - hire someone to obviously follow them everywhere, record everything they do (or only as much as current surveillance records), and they'll want to put a quick stop to it. Do the same thing, but out of sight, out of mind, and their correctly evolved instincts fail to carry over.
Age Verification and "banning kids from social media" are two different things. The former being an overzealous method of achieving the latter.
Parental responsibility and better parental controls would be a MUCH better way of going about this.
Of course, the polling public is blissfully unaware of the wide ranging consequences of such an Age Verification implementation. People will continue to pave the road to fascist hell with good intentions.
What the public perceives it to be is the only thing that matters though. The OP question was asking how governments are getting this through, and the answer is the majority approve of what they see to be happening.
The average person is not thinking about the ability for journalists and whistleblowers to create anonymous Facebook accounts, they are thinking about Mark Zuckerberg trying to sell sex chatbots to their kids and discord pedo servers.
Hold on a minute. Australians are for kids and teens social media ban. They have not been asked if their minors are all face catalogued by pop up companies that these social media companies externalise the verification process to.
Insta and others simply opened the need for such 3rd party verification services, it's a way to limit their liability and risk. For Insta and co it's not their problem if these new 3rd party services become the next identity database of minors.
I hate it.
I think we will eventually see age verification become more like credit card processors where some kind of industry standard for secure processing is agreed on, where most companies do not implement it themselves, and where the providers who do implement it do it securely.
There is no requirement to store ID information to verify ages and it's actively beneficial to delete everything after the verification is done.
We might also see governments implement some kind of zero knowledge APIs where companies can check with the government API if the user is over age without knowing who the user is and without the government knowing what they are signing up for.
You have to understand children are only cute little extensions of their parents until they 18, but on that day they better be ready for the real world™. /s
Disclaimer: talking about functioning democratic governments (obviously authoritarian governments are different).
We do regulate a lot of things to protect the people, especially the children. It's common to make it illegal for children to drink alcohol, smoke stuff and drive vehicles, and it seems completely natural for many of us. We usually don't say "it should be legal for a schools to sell cigarettes and whisky to kids, because it's the responsibility of the parents to educate their kids".
The same applies to the Internet: just like we don't want children to be able to buy porn in a store, we don't want them to be able to access porn on the Internet. Or, more recently, social media. So the obvious idea to prevent that is to do what we do in store: age verification.
The problem on the Internet is mass surveillance, and done incorrectly, age verification adds to that. Technically, we can do age verification in a privacy-preserving way, but:
- Politicians are generally not competent to understand "the right technical way", and the tech giants do benefit from surveillance. Even if they mean well, it's hard for them to take the right decision out of incompetence.
- In some big countries that tend to set the technical norms (e.g. the US), many people completely distrust the government. But private companies have no interest in implementing the privacy-preserving solution, so the only viable way is with the help of government regulations (I would argue that the government should be the ones owning the service).
- The vast majority of people, including the vast majority of politicians, do not understand and do not give a damn about surveillance capitalism. It just does not exist for them. And in those conditions, there is of course no reason to even consider a privacy-preserving solution, because it is technically more complex.
I strongly believe that in many countries they mean to do well. They are just not competent to understand the problem, and they turn to tech giants who do understand it, but have an interest in making sure that the politicians implement it wrongly.
In the case of government representatives' role, I think you've reached for Hanlon's razor incorrectly. Malice better explains what is happening here than ignorance. The actual representatives are cardboard with makeup - they each have a whole team of folks doing the detailed diligence on this stuff. That team knows there's a privacy-preserving way to do this. There's a reason those solutions are not the ones on offer. Corporate regulatory capture is behind all of this.
> I think you've reached for Hanlon's razor incorrectly. Malice better explains what is happening here than ignorance.
Well, I think you reach for it incorrectly, then :-).
> That team knows there's a privacy-preserving way to do this.
Do you have any experience with those people who advise the representatives, and with those representatives? I have anecdotal experience, and I can tell you that for the few I have seen, you vastly overestimate their competences.