[wolvoleo]

Yeah there'll be others sure.

There's another aspect: these days most people don't like being told what to do. When it infringes on other people's lives like making photos I understand but anything else nope.

I couldn't imagine working in an army either. I'd never let them get away with barking at me.

[borski]

People have never liked being told what to do. Even in the military, it's rare that anyone likes being told what to do. The point is that you do it anyway, because you are disciplined and believe in the chain of command, provided you aren't being asked to do something illegal.

If you don't trust your chain of command, then there are issues. But militaries are decidedly not democracies, because the military often requires swift action, and democracies move slowly by design.

[wolvoleo]

I am absolutely not disciplined and don't believe in a chain of command though. And I never will.

There's talk of bringing military service back in my country but I would honestly prefer fighting my own country than the enemy.

I hope more people are going to be like that when they implement it.

[borski]

That's fine, I wasn't trying to convince you. :) I was just clarifying that there isn't a human alive who actually likes being told what to do. There is usually a reason they do it anyway, but it is rarely because they like it.

(I am exaggerating, and in the sense of pleasure there are obviously submissive people, etc., but you get my point, I think)

[wolvoleo]

> there are obviously submissive people, etc

True and I'm one of them in fact. But it's different, I'm submissive only when I want to, to whom I choose to, within limits that I set. There's a lot of safety net. Whereas people who are forced to work in the military don't have any choice.

I think being so antiauthoritarian is what makes that interesting for me. Though I'm never authoritative myself, I could never manage people either.

But I understand your point, thanks!

[borski]

For sure; the container you set within which you choose to be submissive matters a lot, of course. Particularly, it matters because it lets you remain in control of how and when and what you submit to. :)

The issue of being in the military is precisely that you don't have that control, and choices are made for you. The benefit of this is learning discipline, hard work, resilience, and eventually getting to a point of being in control (whether of yourself or of others).

There are hundreds of ways this can go wrong, but it is all designed for one thing: swift action when necessary. Allowing people choice definitively makes things slower, and speed is of the essence in war. Strategy is too, of course, but decisive action matters.

And those who have no choice are nothing if not decisive when told what to do. :)