[otabdeveloper4]

1.5**12 is about 129.74, which is as close as you can reasonably get to a power of two.

So yes, the 12-tone scale is a universal thing - you want both octaves and fifths in your scale.

(12 is actually too much, so usually that's pared down to something like 4 or 5 or 7 tones, this is where you get cultural variation.)

[defrost]

> 1.5*12 is about 129.74,

Math checks out.

> So yes, the 12-tone scale is a universal thing -

I don't follow the logic here though. It's certainly true that a 12-tone / Chromatic scale is ubiquitous within the Western Music tradition .. but the universe is reportedly a little larger.

Even Western Music includes exceptions like the 9-note augmented scale, though the argument can be made that it's a 12-scale with 3 bits "missing" - not a case that can be made about a non-western 7 note percussive scale.

[otabdeveloper4]

All scales in all cultures are based on octaves and fifths. (E.g., the ancient Chinese musical scale also has 12 tones.)

Also the so-called "Western music" standardized on 12 tones very late in the process, long after the Chinese figured it out.

> a 12-scale with 3 bits "missing"

That's all scales, even the "non-Western" ones. Microtonality is added to the standard 12 tone to add tone effects. (Synthesizers in pop music do the same trick.)

[tolciho]

To confirm the claim that "all scales in all cultures are based on octaves and fifths" one might study the scales.zip scale files and find those that do not contain octaves and fifths, which should naturally be zero if the claim is true.

https://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

Note also that certain musical traditions were suppressed or eradicated due to their unfortunate habit of using dissonant notes such as minor seconds, as opposed to the consonant traids favored by a particular group recently in power around the world. Happy Easter!

[otabdeveloper4]

The 12 tone scale is a natural property of the world that has been independently discovered by many different cultures across the world.

The microtonalities or strange scales (like gamelan) are evolutions of the natural octave/fifths grid.

Every synthesizer has a "detune" knob.

[tolciho]

Thank you, I am somewhat aware of the knobs present on a synth, though fail to see the relevance given that various other instruments do not have dynamic retuning options. Which 12 tone scale did you have in mind (for there are many) and why do you think 12 (for there are many other numbers, some of which are used by various scale systems) is a natural property of the world? Perhaps with a more cogent argument you could make a better case for your opinion.

[defrost]

> microtonalities or strange scales (like gamelan) are evolutions of the natural octave/fifths grid.

What is your source for this opinion?

  Gamelan predates the Hindu-Buddhist culture that dominated Indonesia in its earliest records and thus represents an indigenous art form of Indonesia

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamelan

How do you know anything that comes prior to recorded history?

[rerdavies]

129.74 is not really close to a power of two. 31-tet scales have a better approximation of a 5th (and an impressively better approximation of a minor 7th).

The obvious exception in the western system would be the blues scale, which arguably has 9 tones (7 equal tempered notes, plus a just tempered 3rd and 7th).

And Indian ragas break all of these rules. They have scales that don't have 8 notes, scales that don't use equal temperament, and even a few scales that don't repeat on octaves.