[sevg]

I will never understand people like GitHub user “shushtain” in the linked issue.

So obviously the guy is behaving like an entitled jerk, but it’s also surely counter-productive (volunteer maintainers are unlikely to respond well to plain rudeness)? Unless the goal isn’t a productive outcome, but just to be mean?

[faangguyindia]

I've built many successful services by listening to entitled users so much that I used to talk with such entitled users all day.

They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right.

[locknitpicker]

> They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right.

I don't think this is the case at all. You are commenting in a discussion on how a maintainer of an unstable project which very clearly and unambiguously only targets and supports a specific version of a runtime. Still, said maintainer is being pestered by entitled users who attack the maintainer and how they chose to invest their free time contributing to the project with accusations of being "insane".

This is not "passion". This is sheer entitlement, and abuse on top.

If this was passion, you'd see users contributing their work with proposals to post releases. Even very low effort things like forking the repo and posting their custom releases would be infinitely more productive. You know, the core of FLOSS.

But no. You have someone doing their best generously contributing their time to provide something to the public, and in return they get insults and abuse.

No wonder projects get archived.

[jlg23]

If those "many successful services" are FOSS, you are a very rare breed of developers - one I have not yet encountered in almost 30 years of FOSS development.

Could you please link some of your projects? I could use some inspiration how to deal with entitled FOSS users who do not understand that they already got much more than what they paid for.

[siva7]

I don't think you've done any of that - at least not for a successful open source project. The topic here is about open source volunteers and not your day job.

[faangguyindia]

I built businesses not opensource projects.

Though many of my projects are completely free for the users.

Latest being this one already past 1000+ active users https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.macrocodex...

If you don't listen to your passionate users, i doubt you'll ever grow.

Someone being rude/entitled doesn't matter to me, I only care about if what they are saying actually makes any sense

[siva7]

Don't take it personally but the people here are talking about open source projects and unpaid work in their free spare time. There is zero value you could share in this thread from your experiences on developing closed source business products because it completely misses the topic of volunteer work.

[adjfasn47573]

Ehm... no? It's not zero value?

He's making a general point about "regardless of how something is presented to you, at the end of the day you have to look at the actual information, and if there is some truth in it, then it would be illogical to dismiss it".

[em-bee]

at the end of the day you have to look at the actual information, and if there is some truth in it, then it would be illogical to dismiss it

sure, but the amount of nonsense (to avoid the b-word) i am willing to put up with depends on the amount of money i expect to make from the project. for unpaid work that amount is zero. if i am investing my free time and i allow you to benefit from it, you better be nice when you talk to me.

when i run a business then the information gained potentially makes my product sell better. for a volunteer project i may not care about popularity, so the information gained is not necessarily of any benefit.

[siva7]

Oh, how couldn't i see this. The author also did this and he concluded "OK." right before clicking on the "Archive Project" Button.

[otikik]

I will listen to a rude paying customer if I must, because my income will be tied to it. If a similar paying customer comes and they are better behaved, the rude customer will take second position.

On an open source project that I’m doing for my own enjoyment rude people are not welcome. I’m doing that for my own enjoyment - to decompress after dealing with rude people. Close issue, won’t fix, ban free user.

[bobvagnelover69]

incredible jugaad saaaaar!!!!

++ izzat!!!

[sevg]

> They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right.

No, this is not adequate justification for such behavior towards volunteer FOSS maintainers.

[thayne]

It isn't justification for being rude. But just because someone is being rude doesn't mean what they are complaining about isn't an issue.

[elliotec]

What successful services have you built because of entitled users?

[szmarczak]

He's just incompetent:

1. He blames the maintainer that his distro doesn't ship latest neovim.

2. He didn't pull neovim from the Extra-Testing Arch branch.

3. He didn't pull neovim from AUR.

4. He doesn't have the knowledge to build from source.

5. He didn't pull the tarball from git.

6. He didn't pull the AppImage from git.

There's so many solutions to choose from and he chose none; pure ragebait.

[mongrelion]

You should totally post this on the original thread just for adjustment :-)

[thayne]

The project is archived, you can't.

[delusional]

> Unless the goal isn’t a productive outcome, but just to be mean?

Some people are just mean. They spend their angry little lives walking around "outraged" by any minor inconvenience. They assume every single little happenstance was designed to make them miserable.

The greatest thing about having a good education and working with other experts is that I generally don't meet this people that much, but I remember them all too well.

[faangguyindia]

Being rude is not effortless, it requires someone spending significant amount of energy on you

And most people who wronged me were never really rude to me. So i don't even use someone's rudeness as filter for anything.

[rolandog]

Agreed. However, I often wonder if people like that are deliberately (or inadvertently) being a psyop seeking to burn out people ala how "Jia Tan" tried to become maintainer of xz [0].

[0] https://youtu.be/aoag03mSuXQ?t=597

[eviks]

Easiest people to understand: someone hurt you (in this case disrupted your workflow, especially if pointlessly like this user thinks), you express the dissatisfaction to the person who did.

[locknitpicker]

> Easiest people to understand: someone hurt you (in this case disrupted your workflow, especially if pointlessly like this user thinks), you express the dissatisfaction to the person who did.

Are you aware you are talking about a FLOSS project that was gifted to you, and you are advocating for attacking for abusing the creator of said project because you can't even bother to contribute anything back?

[cafebabbe]

Humans are notoriously bad at game theory.

[xboxnolifes]

You see, humans are emotional beings, not rational beings. Surely you've seen examples of that basically everywhere there is human interactions.

[Ferret7446]

Think of the average person, in terms of communication skills, education, critical thinking, emotional regulation, etc. Now realize that half the population is below that.

If you're in a social bubble, which is hard to avoid nowadays, I recommend watching police body cam videos to help recalibrate where the ends of the spectrum are. It's also given me sympathy for police in general

[zysko-vendy]

not really an excuse, but guy's from Kharkiv, Ukraine - a city that is almost daily getting bombed by russia, maybe he just had a bad day?

[mongrelion]

Having a bad day does not entitle you to take it out on others

[perching_aix]

Empathy goes both ways. You can recognize them being unfair while still appreciating their reasons for being unfair.

People seem to have this notion that there's some theoretical possible world where everything is completely moral, and we're just failing to get there. But that is not true. You get locally moral and globally moral arrangements, and they're not necessarily going to mesh. It's just like any other large system.

Guy can be justified from their perspective, people can be justified for distancing themselves from him. That's life. Having a reason for something is further the bare minimum, not the endgame.

[zysko-vendy]

that's why i said it's not really an excuse?