[bostik]

> Cheryl Sandberg inviting the author of the book to sleep in her bed next to her on the company jet, and the petulent and vindictive behavior when the author said 'no'.

Considering the timing... does that mean MeToo doesn't apply if the predator is also a woman?

Sexual advances from a position of power are simply not okay. (Weirdly as a society we appear to have accepted that an older woman predating younger men is somehow a cool thing: we call them cougars.)

[miltonlost]

Age gaps in relationships is not inherently negative. Being a cougar is not a bad thing. The issue here was that Sandberg was the author's manager. Age isn't an issue when all parties are adults.

[ElFitz]

> Age isn't an issue when all parties are adults.

I wouldn’t fully agree. All parties being adults doesn’t inherently remove the advantage very large age and experience gaps can give to one party over the other, especially when one is barely adult. 18 or 21 is just an arbitrary number, and one doesn’t suddenly become smart about these things just because the law says they are now legally full citizens, responsible for their acts and for themselves.

But I also agree it doesn’t make age gaps between adults inherently negative. It’s just… complicated.

[whynotminot]

Can we raise the age of adulthood from 18 to whatever acceptable age ends this discourse once and for all?

[johnnyanmac]

Not without impacting other political aspects. Remember we only lowered the voting age to 18 some 50 years ago to justify the ability to send more kids to a war we started. And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

[ElFitz]

It still strikes me that some places consider someone fully able to freely consent to enrol in the army, to the risk of getting permanently maimed or mentally scarred, and consider them fit to make life or death split-second decisions for both themselves and everyone around them under terror In highly stressful situations.

But can’t be allowed to have a beer or a whisky, and isn’t able to freely consent to sleep with someone five or ten years older.

I wonder what the official legal justification for this dichotomy is, if there is any.

Edit: after looking it up, there doesn’t seem to be one.

[whynotminot]

We seem perfectly fine splitting up some aspects of adulthood, like 21 for drinking.

[Dylan16807]

Probably not, because there's inevitably a transition period.

[whynotminot]

Sure, raise it past the transition period.

I’m tired of the pearl clutchers. Decide an age you’ll actually accept. That’s an adult. No more infantilization.

[Dylan16807]

You're not understanding my argument. Within the current way we do things, whatever age you pick is the age the transition period starts for a big fraction of people. Just picking a higher age doesn't work.

If anything, based on the median in the US right now, we should be introducing more self-determination earlier.

[ElFitz]

Nothing to do with infantilizing anyone.

I’m probably stating the obvious, but some things are complex and don’t have good universal solutions. Which is part of why we have judges and lawyers, not just laws.

[Dylan16807]

There's some issues with someone that has very little experience being an adult. Once they have a couple years out of school and a couple years of being able to drink (if relevant), it's basically all the same.

[miki123211]

With how fast the world is moving (especially in non-US, recently-ish westernized countries that had a lot of catching up to do over the last twenty-forty years, think former eastern bloc), things aren't so clear-cut.

There's a difference between a person who grew up watching video cassettes on their neighbor's VCR, and a person who (barely) watched recaps over 1MB/s DSL. Two completely different childhoods, two completely different cultural experiences, less than 15 years of age difference, both people have had "a couple years out of school and a couple years of being able to drink."

It's not unworkable, but it's quite like a relationship with somebody from a far-away foreign country, maybe without the language barrier.

[Dylan16807]

Sure there's a difference in the kind of things they're used to, but it's not giving anyone an advantage which is what the earlier posts were about. Maybe a small advantage to the younger one which is the opposite of the worry above.

[pc86]

People in the C Suite should not be asking any employee to join them in bed whether they're that person's manager or not.

[Dylan16807]

I think you're just using a narrower definition of "manager" than the person you responded to.

[kakacik]

Fine with that, as long as we agree that it goes both ways and is judged same, equality and all. Otherwise deeply sexist to use kind words

[Barrin92]

>Age isn't an issue when all parties are adults.

there's exceptions to every rule but as a general statement that's about as false as it gets. With increasing age gap between partners divorce and breakup rates go up significantly. Cultures with strong aversion to age gaps, East Asia for example, have both low divorce rates and out-of-wedlock births.

The reason isn't extremely difficult to see, where someone is in life, what priorities they have and how responsible they are is significantly influenced by age, the rom-com industrial complex might have convinced people that relationships are about butterflies in the stomach, but in reality compatibility matters.

[JuniperMesos]

It's a cool thing if you're the younger man getting sexual attention from a hot older woman. Declaring by fiat that this is not okay doesn't change what peoples' desires actually are, or what behavior done by other people they feel compelled to punish.