[eek2121]

I see a ton of bickering, however, I simply have to ask the question: how can anyone justify the United States of America and Israel attacking ANY country? It isn't our job, nor is it Israel's, to try and be the world police. People are dying, and because of a certain corpse-to-be controlling MY country, the world is beginning to suffer and it is going to get so much worse. Some economists are saying gas rationing will begin happening within the next 9-15 months. Iran has NO incentive to be diplomatic. On top of that, invisible damage that nobody is reporting about is being done...damage that could last years or possibly decades to very small, yet super important parts of the world supply chain that powers everything from fertilizer to pharmaceuticals. There is not a single person in the world that should be supporting this war. I don't care what your beliefs are. The results WILL affect you, and you won't get a bailout.

[roncesvalles]

If you're asking in good faith, Israel isn't attacking Iran to play world police. Israel has been under constant attack from Iran-backed proxies. As for why Iran backs these proxies, the answer boils down to pure fanaticism. For a fanatic-led state to possess nukes is a dangerous situation and it's worth it for Israel to try and prevent it.

As for why America is involved in a conflict between Israel and Iran, it's because we have a Republican administration and a big segment of Republicans (Christian Evangelicals) want the US to ensure Israel as a state survives (also for purely fanatical reasons).

[budududuroiu]

> For a fanatic-led state to possess nukes is a dangerous situation and it may be worth it to try and prevent it.

So, when are we bombing Israel to prevent the world being held hostage by nuke-wielding religious fanatics?

[bigbugbag]

FWIW israel did the same to iran also via proxy, for decades too.

and the starting point of all this is the US coup in Iran that eventually lead to the islamists seizing power in Iran.

[hirako2000]

Israel has been under attacks by Iran backed proxies which all happen to have been attacked by Israel first.

1982, Israel invades Lebanon. Iran backs Hezbollah, which triggers its first killing of Israelis in 1983.

There would have been reasons to back the creation of Hamas long before 1982 but the revolution in Iran only took place in 1979, so through the decades of Palestinian oppression, massacres and occupation, Iran was aligned, so it started with a support for Lebanese resistance. Then much later the backing of Palestinian resistance, then Yemen via the Houthis.

It is true there has been constant funding, and of an increasing number of proxy groups, but Israel's invasion was the trigger. Backing nations, and paramilitary groups is pretty common: see U.S backing Ukraine regular army, and private mercenaries.

[zmjone2992]

right iran is the fanatical country here...

[epsteingpt]

Many people ignoring that Saudi Arabia, now a major ally or at least erstwhile enemy of Iran, would LOVE to see the fall of the Iranian regime.

Oil is the last remaining 'strategic commodity' everyone (including China) needs to keep a balance of power.

Many people missing the actual game here.

[miketery]

This is the flag of the Houthis [1], they are sponsored by Iran, as are the likes of Hezbollah, and Hamas. They have similar language in their charters.

How is that not casus belli?

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarkha

[culi]

US first started bombing Yemen in 2002. That flag was adopted by Yemen in 2014

[benja123]

That slogan has been around since 2002. The U.S. carried out a targeted strike against a leader of Al-Qaeda in Yemen, an enemy of the Houthi movement. Using U.S. foreign policy to somehow excuse a flag calling for "death to America, death to Israel, curse on the Jews" is a moral failure.

[shevy-java]

Why would that be any casus belli?

[miketery]

Do you think threats and missiles from an adversary are insufficient cause for war?

[asdff]

Yes. They didn't attack the US. We attacked them with no casus belli. Operation Epstein Fuckup.

[UncleOxidant]

> gas rationing will begin happening within the next 9-15 months

It really depends where in the world you are. There are places that will begin rationing in the next few weeks if not sooner.

[tejohnso]

There are places that has already begun.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/3/9/bangladesh-shuts-uni...

[bigbugbag]

you may have missed that there are places where shortages have already happened and rationing is already underway.

[hereme888]

Clueless? Iran has been attacking many countries, including US and Israel, for 47 years. It's not a secret.

[orf]

Out of interest, what sequence of actions by which country in particular led to the modern Iranian regime?

[troad]

The 1979 Islamic Revolution was staged by Iranians, in response to the despotism of the Pahlavi dynasty, founded in 1925 by Iranians.

It is a disease of the Western mind - and particularly Western academia - to deny agency to others, especially people in the Middle East, as you're doing here with your painfully unsubtle attempt to link US support for the Pahlavis in 1956 to the 1979 Islamic Revolution 23 years later. Worth noting that the Pahlavi dynasty started out as autocratic as it ended, well before the US ever showed up.

This is a lazy reverse Orientalism, where people in the Middle East are othered and cast as a perennial victim incapable of taking any role in, or responsibility for, what happens in their own countries. It's disempowering racism in academic garb.

Iranians caused the Islamic Revolution and only the Iranians can undo it. I wish them the best of luck in doing so.

[orf]

> claim that US support for the Pahlavis in 1956

“Support”. Hah. The word you’re ham-fistedly avoiding there is “coup”. You got the year wrong as well. The US and UK self-admittedly engineered it to support their national interests.

If you believe not one but two superpowers can’t engineer a coup in a financially poor but resource rich nation then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

[troad]

Except we're not talking about the Pahlavi dynasty, we're talking about the Islamic Republic. You're trying to draw some direct causal link from the '56 coup to the '79 revolution, just because that's the conclusion your preconceptions demand, facts be damned.

Why stop there? France engineered and supported an anti-British coup in the underdeveloped but resource rich American colonies in the late 18th century, setting in motion the train of events that led to the Islamic Revolution!

And the Polish General Kosciusko fought valiantly for the Americans, on account of the partitions of Poland. Were it not for those partitions, he'd have been at home! So it is the Austrian, Prussian, and Russian Empires - the partitioning powers of 18th century Poland-Lithuania - to blame for the Islamic Revolution!

But why did Austria desire to get involved in the partitions of Poland, and what long game was it playing vis-a-vis the Shiite scholars of then-Persia...

Hold up, we need a corkboard and some pins. Where's Pepe Silvia in all of this? Who has the Jack Ruby?

You can draw the bowstring all the way to Mars if you want to, but the only people to blame for the monstrous regime of Iran are the people who put that regime in place, and that certainly wasn't the Americans. No amount of "well this encouraged that, which caused blowback to this, leading to that" Substack-level motivated reasoning is going to change that fact.

The gay kids being executed by Iran are not cursing the name of America, or Empress Maria Theresa of Austria, they're cursing the ghouls who are hanging them, who are their countrymen.

[orf]

> but the only people to blame for the monstrous regime of Iran are the people who put that regime in place, and that certainly wasn't the Americans

Let’s put it this way: if we where to stack rank all the countries that where directly involved in the creation of the modern Iranian regime, Iran would be first and America would be second.

This isn’t some theory, it’s a pretty clear/succinct cause and effect.

It’s not clever, patriotic or even a good take to ignore that and hide behind “well it’s their fault for having a regime change orchestrated by us that installed an unpopular authoritarian monarch who curtained freedoms because he would oppose Russian interests and support western ones, ultimately leading to someone worse taking power after decades of human rights abuse supported by the west in return for continued alignment”.

Yes, ultimately the person who pulls the trigger is responsible, but the person who gave them the gun and told them where to shoot is also responsible.

[culi]

Iran has actually never directly killed any US citizens. This misconception arises because its allies in Lebanon have done so. But the US and Israel were occupying the bottom third of Lebanon so I would hardly call that an attack.

There was also the hostage crisis but that was done by student protestors rather than the Iranian government.

[UncleOxidant]

Clueless? The US has been interfering in Iran (stuff like removing democratically elected prime minister) since 1953, at least.

[hereme888]

The 1953 coup was ugly realpolitik, but the Islamic Republic's hostility began in 1979 (hostage crisis, embassy takeover, fatwas against the West). Iran has been the initiator of most modern conflict.

[UncleOxidant]

So you don't think 1953 had anything to do with 1979? It just kind of happened out of the blue?

[hereme888]

It contributed, but downright accusing the US for 1979 ignores Iranian agency, the Shah's own policy failures, economic/social pressures, and the ideological revolutionaries.

[jm4]

I think you need to learn more about the history of U.S./Iran relations over the past 75 years. There was a pretty good episode of NPR Throughline a couple weeks back that gets into the CIA bullshit and then 1979 onwards. Iran has not been a good actor, but we aren’t exactly saints either. It’s an ugly situation all around.

[UncleOxidant]

Sure, and how did they get the Shah, again? You're maybe starting to get closer to enlightenment.

[watwut]

The hostility began in 1953 - too many Iranians hated shah and seen monarchy as oppressors put in by CIA. Even anti islamist Iranians were writing about it. And yes, monarchy was a vialent dictatorship.

Like yes, goverment put in by america wont be hostile to america. But its opponents will blame america for that goverment, because well, they are to blamr. And also, once it fails, all the suppressed anger goes out. And some more, because now america is well positioned to be generic scapegoat even for stuff it had not done.

[bigbugbag]

you seem to have all the data but failing to sort them out to see the direct causal link between the point of origin and the current situation.

also I would argue that we should not confuse Iran and the islamists ruling the country. as a reminder the Iranian people suffered thousands if not tens of thousands death recently during violent repression of social unrest. so it seems the Iranian people may disagree with the choices of the people in power. at least until the US joined the israel led war crimes against Iran.

[shevy-java]

It is pretty obvious that the current war was started by Israel and USA.

I somewhat understand Israel's agenda and objective, even if evil and selfish depending on the point of view (or selfish, for Netanyahu to avoid legal scrutiny while acting as prime minister).

I don't understand the USA attacking here at all. With rising prices I think Trump should pay compensation to the rest of the world for his decision here. This is now similar to the build-up to Vietnam though - I don't see Trump being able to withdraw, without looking incompetent, so he is now committed to the war, similar to why Putin can not stop his invasion of Ukraine. Two criminals, one thought.

[hirako2000]

Trump thinks he did a huge favour to the entire world. He even expressed disappointment no country accepted to give him a little hand when he asked for help.

[mhb]

It is not obvious at all unless you don't understand Iran's objectives and its attacks on Israel (a country over 1,000 miles away) for the past several decades.

[ssijak]

When has Iran attacked the USA?

[stevenwoo]

All reporting I’ve seen on Israel mention destruction of Iran as long time dream of Bibi and it distracts from his legal and political troubles and unites country behind him - war has 90 plus percent approval among Jews and about 25 percent among Arabs who don’t vote for his coalition anyways, so political win for him. For modern GOP, “the cruelty is the point” can be used to explain most of his policy decisions, the book and original essay make the argument that making “others” suffer is uniting factor for GOP since Trump took the reins (in spite of many conflicting reasons Rubio, Trump and Hegseth have given to justify this war including setting stage for apocalypse foretold in Revelations to please fundamentalist Christian voter bloc) Many GOP voters have backed Trump in interviews even after being hurt by his tariff regime, immigration crackdowns, DOGE cutbacks, threats to annex territory, the only thing that appears to move the needle a little in GOP approval has been the recent run up in gasoline prices. One case in point - Farmers got hurt in first term by Trump tariffs, overwhelming supported Trump three elections in a row, and after second term tariffs hurt them, still support Trump, one would think if one farmer said I’m off the Trump train that reporters would be all over it. There is no rational thought process going on here beyond first order effects.

[Johanx64]

> how can anyone justify the United States of America and Israel attacking ANY country?

Every military action will have an on-paper "justification". It's kind of irrelevant frankly. But to cut bullshit, it really isn't that complicated.

Venezuela is an extremely oil rich country. Countries in the middle-east region, including Iran are very oil rich.

And that's in large part why US (by this point firmly decaying petrostate propped by petrodollar) is constantly there "meddling" and ensuring all the oil is continuously bought using US dollars.

That is wholly sufficient to explain things.

Every other cartoonish-evil justification "Iran wants to build nukes to bomb US, etc" is largely bullshit (why, for example, Iran doesn't want to nuke.... say Germany or France? hmmm.....)

[epsteingpt]

Correct.

Just add Saudi Arabia / Iran Sunni-Shia hatred and you've got war.