Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by replooda 81 days ago
OpenBSD, a rather more complex project, seems to be doing fine without a code of conduct — in the sense bakugo employed "code of conduct," not in the generalized sensed you conflated it with in your non sequitur.
2 comments

OpenBSD has a "netiquette" doc for its mailing lists: https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html

Not sure if you want to count it as a "code of conduct", but it certainly defines rules on how to communicate and contribute to the project.

I'd count it as one in the general sense I'd count the style(9) manpage as another, not in the specific sense I indicated I was referring to:

> ... fine without a code of conduct — in the sense bakugo employed "code of conduct," not in the generalized sense ...

I mean, I like openbsd the product, but the community culture is notoriously terrible and unwelcoming to newbies.
I find it just the opposite. I can think of few communities nearly as patient or welcoming to anyone who's earnest and willing to put in the work to learn; true, there's no coddling or hand-holding, and, indeed, it tends to be very direct in calling out foolishness or laziness, and can reach epic proportions when it comes to dishonesty or entitlement, but nothing which can't be processed by emotional maturity, nor the gratuitous pedanticism-fueled browbeating often seen in some I-use-foo-btw open-source communities despite their shiny CoCs.
> I find it just the opposite. I can think of few communities nearly as patient or welcoming to anyone who's earnest and willing to put in the work to learn; true, there's no coddling or hand-holding, and, indeed, it tends to be very direct in calling out foolishness or laziness,

That’s nearly the exact opposite of welcoming newbies.

To be perfectly honest, that’s fine: OpenBSD demands a steep learning curve and that you know what you’re doing.

What is? No coddling? Little tolerance toward laziness? Zero toward entitlement? That's closer to the opposite of being patronizing, I would say.

They point to documentation in response to the kind of request I've seen closed with RTFMs elsewhere. They'll expect one to read it, and try one's hand at whatever one is trying to accomplish — and they'll feel slighted by a refusal, given how much work they put into it.

And yet, they go to great, unexpected (given the fame) lengths to help someone actually making the effort; they don't try to put anyone down in order to feel bigger than they are, but they don't sugar coat things to appear more likable either.

In short, no, knowing what one is doing isn't a prerequisite; it's more about not foisting onto others the responsibility for the effort required to move from where one is to where one wants to be — whether in knowledge, maturity or tools.

What do you consider laziness?

Why do you believe pointing to the manual is newbie friendly?

In the Linux world, it took ages before it was newbie friendly (thinking Ubuntu and Mint).

OpenBSD serves an important niche, but to brand it as newbie-friendly does OpenBSD a disservice.

Or perhaps you mean newbie tolerant?

> What do you consider laziness?

In this context, what I expanded above as foisting onto others the responsibility for the effort required by what we want to accomplish.

> Why do you believe pointing to the manual is newbie friendly?

To the documentation, which may or may not be a manpage; as it's usually done in response to a request for the information contained therein, I do find it reasonable.

> OpenBSD serves an important niche, but to brand it as newbie-friendly does OpenBSD a disservice.

We're discussing OpenBSD's community, not the system itself.

> Or perhaps you mean newbie tolerant?

I meant what I wrote, that I find the community to be the opposite of "notoriously terrible and unwelcoming to newbies," by which I do not imply newbie-friendliness in a kindergarten sense.