[amelius]

I mean, if I just look at my house. There is just one ethernet outlet, but many power sockets. If I want to connect devices all over my house, the best way is to use wifi and usb power adapters. Not ethernet.

Both solutions require 1 cable per device, but the first solution would require only short and thin cables, and the second solution would require very long cables which I don't know even how to do properly without milling my walls.

[stinkbeetle]

Yep. Mains electricity is ubiquitous, highly interoperable, very reliable, very high power available per drop, can be outdoor capable, common standards, understandable by users, requiring no active components, with many on-call experts available who can come to fix problems or extend/alter connectivity. Mains power wall plates with inbuilt USB power outlets are even available at quite small cost if the look of the bigger plug and wiring is not appealing.

PoE is much fewer of those things. Difficult to recommend it these days with wifi being fast and reliable and so widely used. Certainly not for average residential user.

[ImPostingOnHN]

That's half the equation. The other half is the reliability and security of wifi, which is less than that of ethernet for people without physical access to my wall innards

[stinkbeetle]

Reliability of wifi is not as good I guess, although these days it is extremely good for decent devices. For poor quality devices, I have also heard of PoE routers blowing ports and devices that don't work properly.

Is security of wifi an actual practical concern? I've not heard of it since WPA2.

For average residential user, even most hobbyist / enthusiast, I doubt those things will matter. Almost everybody who wants extremely fast reliable wired connectivity will be much better off using fiber, and using wifi for cameras and automation and streaming and other such things. Getting power to where you need it is not the difficult part, especially if you're pulling wires anyway, which is why PoE has always been fairly niche.

[ImPostingOnHN]

Reliability and security of wifi isn't good when jamming of it is so easy and available. It's a lot harder to jam ethernet at a distance.

[stinkbeetle]

Pretty niche requirement for personal user though. Protection against eavesdropping is the main thing required, and PoE is actually much worse for that than WiFi is you have any drops in less secured ares (e.g., outdoor cameras).

[ImPostingOnHN]

I can see that. I have security devices on my network (e.g. a camera), so I might come at this with a different perspective (since it's not uncommon for burglars to jam wifi).

[cyberax]

On the other hand, _all_ the WiFi devices that I had at some point fell off the network, at least once. Including doorbells and cameras. While PoE devices just work.

Another point is that mains power in my area can go down periodically. My PoE switch is powered by a Li-Ion UPS and can provide power for about a day.

[stinkbeetle]

> On the other hand, _all_ the WiFi devices that I had at some point fell off the network, at least once. Including doorbells and cameras. While PoE devices just work.

I've not had that in a decade, and only for really shitty devices. I've also had crappy PoE devices stop working, ports blow. Too much effort to be worth the bother for me nowadays. If I had to bet my life sure I'd probably use wired ethernet. But if I had to bet my life I wouldn't be using PoE for power either.

UPS is entirely possible to do on residential mains circuits.

[cyberax]

> I've not had that in a decade, and only for really shitty devices. I've also had crappy PoE devices stop working, ports blow.

Every ESP32-based WiFi device _will_ at some point get stuck in the disconnected state. It's almost an ironclad guarantee.

> UPS is entirely possible to do on residential mains circuits.

Sure, but then you're getting into the "whole house" backup with subpanel, transfer switches, etc. You can install backup for your router as a small UPS, but then I also have cameras, doorbells, sensors, etc.

If you already have a house without Ethernet wiring, then opening up the walls just to run PoE makes no sense. But if you're building a new house or if you have pre-existing wiring (and a lot of newish houses do), then PoE is a no-brainer.

[stinkbeetle]

> Every ESP32-based WiFi device _will_ at some point get stuck in the disconnected state. It's almost an ironclad guarantee.

See earlier note about crappy devices.

> Sure, but then you're getting into the "whole house" backup with subpanel, transfer switches, etc. You can install backup for your router as a small UPS, but then I also have cameras, doorbells, sensors, etc.

Well you can get small UPS for them too, but sure there are probably some points you can find around your corner of the envelope where PoE makes sense. That's not where many people are though.

> If you already have a house without Ethernet wiring, then opening up the walls just to run PoE makes no sense. But if you're building a new house or if you have pre-existing wiring (and a lot of newish houses do), then PoE is a no-brainer.

Not many new houses do at all because it costs money nobody really wants to pay. A builder will put some in if you ask but not off their own bat because they think it'll make the house worth more, because it won't. So unless some super nerd like your or I ask, no houses will be wired for ethernet. There was a brief window where wifi was non-existent or pretty slow and terrible where it got slightly popular, but that's long past.

If I was building a new house I would wire ethernet from a small server room/cupboard to just several places for wifi APs, plus ethernet and fiber from there to office. No PoE, they would all have USB-C power from same/adjacent wall plate as ethernet. And would probably look at solar+battery system with UPS capability, especially if I lived somewhere with shitty mains power. But even that is not appropriate for normies. They'd just buy a few mesh/repeater wifi things, not care that much about power going out once every few years, and be done with it.

[moepstar]

> My PoE switch is powered by a Li-Ion UPS and can provide power for about a day.

Same - and i can "remote yank" the power, thus restart the devices without lifting a finger (much).