[Antibabelic]

The JVM is one of the major selling points of Clojure. You can "write once, run anywhere" and benefit from Java's massive ecosystem, all without having to use a Blub language. Modern JVM implementations are also incredibly fast, often comparable in performance to C++ and Go.

[thunky]

i don't think you're wrong necessarily...but rust, golang, zig, mojo, etc are gaining popularity and imo they wouldn't be if they were JVM languages.

[jolt42]

Scala and Clojure were smart to ride the JVM early on. Babashka and Jank are Clojure breaking out of the JVM.

[Antibabelic]

It's almost as if different tools exist for solving different problems. Clojure is "Lisp on the JVM". That's the core premise behind the language. Rust is a "systems programming language with a focus on type and memory safety". This is an apples-to-oranges comparison. They offer different benefits while providing different drawbacks in return. Their ecosystems are likewise very different, in each case more closely tailored to their particular niche.

[thunky]

understood, i'm just pointing out that people seem to prefer the apple over the orange.

[asa400]

> i don't think you're wrong necessarily...but rust, golang, zig, mojo, etc are gaining popularity and imo they wouldn't be if they were JVM languages.

> understood, i'm just pointing out that people seem to prefer the apple over the orange.

This is kind of like saying that fewer people are drinking Coke every year and are choosing other beverages. It might be objectively true but it glosses over the fact that literally billions of people drink Coke daily and will continue to do so for decades to come.

The JVM is the same. Some people and organizations might be using zig or mojo (and I have absolutely nothing against zig or mojo, to be clear, I hope they succeed) but many multiple orders of magnitude more individuals and organizations run JVM stuff in a given year and will continue doing so.

At this point, the JVM is a civilizational technology. If it went away tomorrow, multiple banks would fail, entire countries would no longer be able to administer social services, millions of people would die. The JVM is in everything.

Developers on HN using zig, mojo, etc. aren't really a representative sample.

[baranul]

> Developers on HN using zig, mojo, etc. aren't really a representative sample.

Agree. A lot of manipulation and astroturfing goes on, from many different groups, that affects what appears to be popular on a particular site. The bubbles formed at a site can become self-reinforcing.

The more time one spends at a particular site, the more likely to fall for the illusion or become to believe that what is being presented, is representative of everyone or everywhere else. Kind of like if a person only watches Fox News or PBS News.