[joblessjunkie]

I’m a greybeard, I played Oregon trail on the II and remember the first Mac.

IMO Apple (well, Jobs) was always trying to create a sealed, perfect appliance for regular people, even in the very early days. Apple worked very hard to hide all implementation details. Hackers, on the contrary, want to see and tweak all those hidden details. The complaints today were the same in the 80s.

To his credit, Jobs finally got there. My mother is in her 70s and the iPad is the only computer she’s ever used.

[detourdog]

Apple clicked with me when our middle school computer lab conisted of an Apple II+ and a TRS-80. The TRS-80 seemed unusable as it required a cassette tape to save and retrieve files and the Apple II+ had floppy disks. I remember reading about the Lisa being a computer so simple that a 2 year old could use one. I thought that was the craziest thing I ever heard. I tried to imagine how that could be case. Years later my Mom (someone with a masters in english and made her living as a potter) happened upon a demo of the Mac 128k. She couldn't believe the experience and purchased one. Changed her career with desktop publishing.

My training was Industrial Design but I Have spent my whole career administrating Mac Networks. My first job involved networking a 30 person design firm. The computers were half Macs and half PCs. When System 7 was released the Macs we purchased Ascente ethernet card for them and they all worked. We needed to purchase ethernet cards for the PCs we had to move them off DOS, switch the from Word Perfect 5.1 (pissimg off the writers) and install Novell 3.11 to network the PCs and added a Mac NLM to the server to exchange files between the 2.

I love OS X but System 7 was better. I think the Mac lost it's simplicity when the Desktop was moved into the home directory. Everything became more complicated. I still think Apple caters to the founding spirit of simple computing tools for people. Computing has just become too complicated.

[mghackerlady]

the apple I was very much not that, being built from entirely off the shelf parts and having the source code available for the closest thing to an operating system as it had (wozmon)

the apple II was a slight bit of a setback but it was very much still an open platform, with a very good reference manual written by Woz himself. it even had fully commented ROM listings. I don't know enough about the III to comment on whether or not it was as good in this regard but I suspect it wasn't since it wasn't so close to the hardware like the IIs

then came the Lisa and while it wasn't as bad as the Mac it still wasn't great, and then the Mac killed any hope of hackability

[detourdog]

True, but to each their own. There was trend line towards usability. I would say the Mac was a big step towards where they were going.

If you want hackability there were other choices. Usability was there focus. Having a floppy disk was a major advancement even though a cassette tape was technically usable.

[mghackerlady]

Oh I agree the mac and lisa were infinitely more accessible than the II but they could've at least made some concessions earlier than they did (I don't think any of the macs had an expansion bus until the II)

[detourdog]

The SE has a single NUBUS slot which is how we installed the Ascente ethernet cards. I would say the SE is probably the same generation of the II. I think the II the SE and the CI were probably all the same generation. I also think the II's code name was the Open Mac.