[lostmsu]

I would argue that flattery without calculation is just poorly calculated flattery.

Same applies to many other traits in the list. Low achievements people lie right and left just as well. Are cynical when convenient, yada yada.

Basically, the list says that these 30s are just like an average Joe, but smart. Which should be a surprise to no one.

[estearum]

No, because smart people realize they are playing an iterated game and that behaving in a way that people identify as Machiavellian is actually suboptimal in the long run.

So they're smart enough to be calculated and stupid enough not to be so calculated that they look untrustworthy.

[lostmsu]

> No, because smart people realize they are playing an iterated game and that behaving in a way that people identify as Machiavellian is actually suboptimal in the long run.

Even if you are right coincidentally (which I wouldn't be so sure about), that's still poor argument assuming you realize your belief in what optimal strategy is what it is - just an educated guess.

[estearum]

Why does that matter?

[fc417fc802]

They're only the same thing if you ignore intent.

Not everyone lies or is cynical when convenient. Skill, rate of success, and personal ethics are all orthogonal concepts.

Above all, intent matters. I do not treat someone who I perceive to be manipulative the same as I would other people.

[lostmsu]

> all orthogonal concepts

That's my point exactly. I just also assume the % of liars in 30s is the same as in general population by default.