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by lnenad 86 days ago
I love diagramming, but I genuinely don't understand how people can use these wonky looking tools. It looks off, I had to make my own[1] to create something that's easy to use and looks good/normal.

[1] https://grafly.io

14 comments

I like the wonky, hand-drawn looking style. I think it fits well beause usually if I use a diagram it's not 100% precise and accurate, but more a high-level illustration. The wonky style conveys the approximate precision of the presented concept.

Also, and that's personal, I think it's cute.

I agree with you. I think the 'wonky' comment was more to serve as justification for the plug than an actual criticism of Excalidraw.

Excalidraw is my favourite thinking tool, and the style it produces is just the right level of limiting, disarming, and professional at the same time.

It's not, I genuinely find it harder to read diagrams. And also the plug is very relevant, I wanted to share, it's not a saas it's a free tool.
I agree 100% it's personal, wasn't trying to imply anything else, but for me the style takes away from the actual content and makes it harder to read/grasp.
I thought they were saying the tool is wonky looking, but <shrug>?
One person's bug is another's feature.
Excalidraw has a 1 click 'sloppiness' change. We do drafts and ideation in 'full sloppy' mode, to indicate to the reader that this is not fully thought through, or a final documented decision. Once we've gotten through discussions and analysis, the final diagram is changed to be 'not sloppy', and the font changed from handwriting to a san serif font.

It's pretty effective to immediately communicate to folks that 'this is a concept' approach. Too many people instantly jump to conclusions about diagrams - if it's written down it must be done / fixed / formal.

> It looks off

Depends on what you want to achieve with your look. Do you want to scream professionalism, authority, and completed? Use a regular UML tool.

Want to say this is a rough draft of a few ideas? Then using UML is probably THE wrong look. And Exaclidraw should be used instead.

--- Anecdote time. According to one of my professors, they showed how the prototype will look in action, and the customers were so impressed by the smoke and mirrors prototype they wanted to start using it right away.

In the end, customer walked away because they thought they were being strung along to pay for something that was already done.

In Excalidraw, you can reduce (and completely remove) the "sloppiness" in the element properties.
This looks really clean, nice work. I’ve had the same issues with most diagramming tools, it's either not so good looking or the insane pricing .

I went a different route using diagram-as-code with Mermaid instead of manual drawing.

[1] https://graphlet.xyz

Thanks! I love Mermaid as well, I made it so you can import Mermaid diagrams as well.
I absolutely love it that you can import mermaid. I love mermaid because I'm a huge fan of anything related to code that can I check into git, track its evolution and the thinking that went behind it.

However, those who don't know mermaid have to struggle with updating my diagrams. Your approach, atleast in theory, should get us the best of both worlds. Mermaid for those who would like to and the mouse for those who don't.

This also addresses the issue that large complex diagrams can get unwieldy using Mermaid and moving things around with a mouse would fix those edge cases.

“USING AI TO GENERATE DIAGRAMS

Click the AI button in the toolbar to copy the Grafly format reference. Paste it into any LLM (Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini…) along with a description of the diagram you want. Copy the JSON the LLM returns. Click the Import JSON button () in the toolbar and paste it in. ”

Super user friendly as well! I don’t even understand the instructions on how to use it.

The best way to drive adoption to your product is to not shit on someone else's labour of love. Just a little pro-tip.
How did I shit on excalidraw? I don't like how it looks, it's a personal preference. I don't think saying that equates to shitting on it.
1) You literally call Excalidraw a "wonky looking tool".

2) You claim you don't understand why people use it.

3) You claim your vibecoded substitute is more "normal" implying Excalidraw is abnormal.

Having a negative opinion on something and expressing it is shitting on something?
Whimsical is a whiteboard/diagram app that I think looks pretty nice, not too far from how yours looks
When a background shape is in focus it comes to the foreground covering the shapes that are on top of it.
That is by design. If you deselect it it goes back to it's layer.
Questions:

1. Will you be making the source code public?

2. How to export the JSON for SCM, then re-import for updating/maintenance?

It's open source, I just haven't linked it in the project (my bad).

https://github.com/lnenad/grafly/

In the upper right there is an import/export button that could be used for this. It's stored in localstorage so you could also dump that to wherever you like.

edit: added link to the repo in the about modal. edit2: added import export of the entire localstorage entry on the bottom of the diagrams(left) panel.

I prefer excalidraw …
looks awesome man !