[ThalesX]

The only career goals I want my manager to be responsible for is to not be in my way. I tinkered with my PC since I was young without my manager. I decided to go to Computer Science without my manager. I got my degree without my manager. I got my first job without my manager. I practiced lifelong learning without my manager. I ran my own company without my manager. I handled clients without my manager. I managed to find mentors without my manager. Etc.

There might be some people that need a nanny. I am not one of those people. My manager should be a proper valve between me and whatever layer he manages for and should not play stupid games when it comes to my career. That's it. He's a colleague. Not a mentor. I'm perfectly capable of finding mentors for myself, and if it happens to be them, well, kudos to them.

[Swizec]

> That's it. He's a colleague. Not a mentor

You're missing a very important aspect of how managers impact your career: Opportunities.

The manager's job is to find you impactful work that a) gets you promoted and b) challenges you in the ways you want or need to grow.

[ThalesX]

Am I missing this, or are you assuming that I am incapable of finding opportunities myself, within or without the organization that the manager is beholden to? I honestly can't understand this framing, of the manager's job as a sort of opportunity finder for those 'under' them, and somehow being more impactful at this than the individuals themselves.

I'll give you this, some people need to be managed and for some reason presented with opportunities by a 2nd party. But some people just don't, they need to be collaborated with.

[jjav]

> Am I missing this, or are you assuming that I am incapable of finding opportunities myself

Somewhat, yes. It has nothing to do with you. Some opportunities you can create yourself, go for it. Other opportunities only arise in the context of leadership meetings you are not a part of (by definition, if you're not the manager). Having a manager in those meeting push for your opportunities is priceless.

Having had many managers who don't do this for me and a few that do, definitely want the second kind.

[theevilsharpie]

This is a pretty odd take, from my perspective.

If one of my direct reports came to me and said they were interested in working on, say... AI observability (replace with whatever interests you), and that was something I had any influence over (even if only indirectly), I'd be finding whatever way I could to connect my report with that kind of work.

It's all well and good to say that you're in control of your own career advancement, but that's not in conflict with working with your manager on supporting your career development. Even if they don't have anything to teach you, they will necessarily have some influence of your scope/area of work, so it only makes sense to work them on aligning your work with your interests.

[ThalesX]

I believe everything you wrote about here is actually cooperation between two people, and to the point of what I said, you not actively getting in the way of your direct report's career progression.

> The manager's job is to find you impactful work that a) gets you promoted and b) challenges you in the ways you want or need to grow.

To me, the comment I responded to reads like a manager actively involved in the promotion of a direct report, and in finding a scope of work that the report might find challenging so that they grow. Your comment reads like a colleague helping out another colleague to the best of their ability. Which is exactly what I expect from a manager.

[jjav]

> You're missing a very important aspect of how managers impact your career: Opportunities.

Indeed! In basketball terms, a manager should be the MVP in Assists. They don't score directly but they set up plays for you so you can succeed. It's then up to the employee to act on it and score.

The best managers I've had are of this type.