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by paxys 80 days ago
You must be living in a different universe if you think ICs aren't enamored by AI. Every developer I know basically can't operate now without Claude Code (or equivalent).
4 comments

So what you're saying is that now the worst devs can produce code faster and their velocity is no longer limited by their incompetence.

Why is this supposed to be a good thing?

Come on man, that’s not what GP is saying.
How is it not? It reads to me as them saying that all these devs have deskilled from "barely competent" to "completely helpless". Or is your claim that they were actually really good devs, and the deskilling has been even more intense than I'm picturing?

Because that also sounds real bad!

My personal experience is we're seeing a magnification of results. The slog is reading hundreds of files, updating some active code to remove some old function from 100k lines of code. Last week the modification, while trivial, would have took weeks and AI agents were able to correct the code with 100% verified accuracy in 20 minutes.
Meh not really.

I _could_ do my job without AI, but it would take twice the time and I would feel miserable having to type out every single character like a caveman.

Just AI auto complete alone is a massive life changer. It reduces my typing at least in half, and is highly accurate to what I want to write.

I hope that’s exaggeration because being unable to operate without it means you’re going to do a terrible job of reviewing the code it’s producing.
Since the November/December Opus and Claude Code, I found I don't need to read the code any more. Architecture overview sure, and testing yes, but not reading the code directly any more.

Me (and my friends similarly) inspect code indirectly now - telling agents to write reports about certain aspects of the code and architecture etc.

I do regularly read the code that Claude outputs. And about 25% of the time the tests it writes will reimplement the code under test in the test.

Another 25% of the time the tests are wrong in some other way. Usually mocking something in a way that doesn't match reality.

And maybe 5% of the time Claude does some testing that requires a database, it will find some other database lying around and try to use that instead of what it's supposed to be doing.

And even if Claude writes a correct test, it will general have it skip the test if a dependency isn't there--no matter how fervently I tell it not to.

If you're not looking the code at all, you're building a house of cards. If you not reading the tests you're not even building you're just covering the floor in a big sloppy pile of runny shit.

> I do regularly read the code that Claude outputs

You probably could have s/Claude/Human/ in your rant and been just as accurate. I don't know how many times I've flagged these issues in code reviews. And that's only assuming the human even bothered to write tests...

What I find is that when I ask AI to write tests it writes too many, and I agree with you that a lot of them are useless. But then I just tell it that, and it agrees with me and cleans it up. Much faster feedback loop and much better final result.

I feel like people that look at a poor result and stop there and conclude it's useless have made up their mind and don't want to see the better results that are right in front of them if they just spend an extra 5 seconds trying.

How do you know whether the tests it’s spits out are bad if you don’t read the tests.

We’re not dealing AGI here. Tests aren’t strictly necessary for humans. They are for AI. AI requires guardrails to keep from spinning out. That’s essentially the entire premise of the agentic workflow.

> How do you know whether the tests it’s spits out are bad if you don’t read the tests.

I do read the tests (quickly, I admit) and so does OP:

Architecture overview sure, and testing yes, but not reading the code directly any more.

Reading that again I may have misunderstood what they meant by "testing yes", though.

I read the tests, it also is really really good to have Claude verify that removing the changes in question break the tests. This brings the quality way way up for me.
In comparison, I see this issues in fewer than 1% of the changes I review. Because when it happens you can effectively teach people to stop doing it.
I'd understand not reading the code of the system under test, but you don't even read the tests? I'd do that if my architecture and design were very precise, but at this point I'd have spent too much time designing rather than implementing (and possibly uncovering unknown unknowns in the process).

> Me (and my friends similarly) inspect code indirectly now - telling agents to write reports about certain aspects of the code and architecture etc.

Doesn't this take longer than reading the code?

I can see how some of this is part of the future (I remember this article talking about python modules having a big docstring at the top fully describing the public functions, and the author describing how they just update this doc, then regenerate the code fully, never reading it, and I find this quite convincing), but in the end I just want the most concise language for what I'm trying to express. If I need an edge case covered, I'd rather have a very simple test making that explicit than more verbose forms. Until we have formal specifications everywhere I guess.

But maybe I'm just not picturing what you mean exactly by "reports".

I've seen the code these models produce without a human programmer going over the results with care. It's still slop. Better slop than in the past, but slop none the less. If you aren't at minimum reading the code yourself and you're shipping a significant amount of it, you're either effectively the first person to figure out the magic prompt to get the models to produce better code, or you're shipping slop. Personally, I wouldn't bet on the former.
Yeah, these models have definitely become more useful in the last months, but statements like "I don't need to read the code any more" still say more about the person writing that than about agents.
If I were you I’d very worried about getting laid off. That kind of work isn’t going to keep earning a software engineer salary.
you're a slop maker
It's not. Most developers are pretty bad at their job, and already can't review code very effectively.

They just create even more slop currently, which will be the case until someone realizes they aren't needed to produce slop at all.

If those devs can't operate without an LLM, they weren't worth their salt to begin with. I find that most competent devs are skeptical of the tech, because it doesn't help them. But even among those who embrace it, they would get by just fine if it was gone tomorrow.
The industry is filled with people who just want to close their tickets and sign off.

And plenty of prolific programmers are writing publicly about their Ai use.

What do you work on?

I find people tend to omit that on HN and folks dealing with different roles end up yelling at each other because those details are missing. Being an embedded sw engineer writing straight C/ASM is, for instance, quite different from being a frontend engineer. AI will perform quite differently in each case.

AI is very good at writing C and asm. It even writes good Verilog. Unfortunately.
My experience is that it gets the syntax right but constantly hallucinates APIs and functions that don't exist but sound like they should. It also seems to be tricked by variable names that don't line up with their usage.