[xamuel]

I didn't read the OP but one pet peeve of mine is the uppercase I vs. lowercase L in sans-serif. Especially in contexts like randomly-generated passwords which you have to manually copy for whatever reason. Does the article address this in any way? Or is the context limited to "real" language where that's not as much of an issue?

[extra88]

That's only a problem with some sans-serif fonts. This very site is using a sans-serif and the capital 'I' has bars in either end so it's not confused with 'l'.

Some sans-serif fonts do add little flourishes to some letters, like 'l', to further distinguish them.

[boredhedgehog]

According to the CSS, this site requests the fonts Verdana or Geneva in order, and what you say about the capital 'I' is true for the former but not the latter.

[user_7832]

> That's only a problem with some sans-serif fonts. This very site is using a sans-serif and the capital 'I' has bars in either end so it's not confused with 'l'.

I'm not sure if my browser is broken or what but they literally look identical to me in your comment.

[MathMonkeyMan]

font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;

My computer has neither Verdana nor Geneva, and my browser's default sans-serif is Noto Sans, which has bars on the upper case "I".

Verdana does, too. It looks like Geneva does not (<http://www.identifont.com/show?1O3>), so you're probably using Geneva.

Maybe Verdana is the default for Windows, Geneva for MacOS, and "other" for Linuxes.

[xamuel]

One place where the big i and small L look almost identical, and a pretty funny/annoying place for them to do so, is when you're typing a WiFi password in OSX (if you toggle "Show password"), at least as of MacOS Monterey 12.1. I also see them as almost identical in my browser's URL bar (Firefox 148.0.2 on aforesaid version of OSX) which isn't just an annoyance but might even be a security concern!

[keiferski]

Probably your browser. They look different to me.

[hirako2000]

And that's the argument for serif. If you set sans serif the OS may pick one or another font, and that choice may change over time.

By publishing with serif you are guaranteed there will be a clearer distinction.

But txet is contxtual you can evn miss letres entrly yet be lgibl.

The over a hundred page long research paper makes conclusion off a practical study, not encumbered by intuitive clues that typically make us think serif lead to more legibility.

[user_7832]

Yeah, that was interesting.

I replied to that comment on Kiwi (chromium), android. The two letters were literally identical (I even zoomed in).

On desktop (also chromium)… the difference is obvious. I don't know if it's an android vs windows thing? Or what? But it's definitely something.

[mrgoldenbrown]

Not for me. The font we are all seeing depends on our browser and whether we have the requested fonts. No bars on the sans serif my Firefox on Android is displaying.

[mr_mitm]

Aren't those bars the serifs? So you're saying the sans-serif I has serifs?

Hacker news uses sans-serif font and in all my browsers the I and l look nearly identical btw.

[MathMonkeyMan]

I think the serifs would be embellishments at the ends of the bars, not the bars themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serif

[pbhjpbhj]

This might be a question of philosophy! I suspect that they were originally serifs - see inscriptions to Julius Caesar, say (such inscriptions being the inspiration for Trajan font) - but for some writers they were extended to become part of the letter body, akin to the bar on the top of capital-T.

My take then is, originally they were serifs, now they are sometimes part of the letter form.

[kybernetikos]

It's surprisingly rare for fonts to be careful to distinguish not just Il1| but also 0O 2Z "'' 5S B8. I typically set my system font to something that does, like Atkinson hyperlegible.

[rerdavies]

Perhaps, a well-designed random password generate should not use 1, l, or I. Or 0, or O. (I know mine don't).

[Terr_]

Now I'm imagining an unrealistically-nerdy world where all secret entry/display widgets let you flip between different representations.

So a form might have a choices between ASCII, Hex, Base52, Base64, or schemes with anti-typo check digits, etc.