Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by badc0ffee 77 days ago
I have a lot of sympathy for Imane Khelif and Caster Semenya, as they were assigned female at birth and raised as girls, and they want to compete with women. But I don't know if there's a case to be made that they're biologically female.

They have XY chromosomes, internal testes, a male testosterone level, and male muscle development. They have the SRY gene that the IOC is testing for, and are not one of the exceptions. Regardless of the fact that their DSD (5-ARD) results in no penis.

To be clear, I'm not saying they should start living life as men. But describing their situation as the natural variation of cis women is simplistic and not accurate.
1 comments
lynndotpy 77 days ago
For starters, I can't find any credible source saying they have XY chromosomes or internal testes.

Further, they are women, and therefore their testosterone levels and muscle development are female.

This just gets to a ludicrous place. These are women who are simply identifiable as so. Anyone throughout history would have identified them as so. Their biological metrics are within the variation of cis women, because they are cis women.

link
badc0ffee 77 days ago
Caster Semenya: https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/67367157
link
lynndotpy 76 days ago
This is fair, I didn't know about this, but this doesn't appear to be the case for Imane Khelif.

Either way, my point still stands. These women are women, would have been recognized as such by anyone throughout history, and it's simply the case that some women are born with XY chromosomes and testes.

link
badc0ffee 75 days ago
> this doesn't appear to be the case for Imane Khelif.

It absolutely does appear to be the case, but Imane is very vague about it in interviews.

> These women are women, would have been recognized as such by anyone throughout history

I disagree. They are males with a genital deformity (no penis). Whether that translates to "woman" is not universal across cultures.

I agree we should refer to them as women, because that's how they were raised their entire lives.

> it's simply the case that some women are born with XY chromosomes and testes.

Yes, women with CAIS. But individuals with 5-ARD are not always going to have the "woman" label applied to them. And it is not fair they they compete against women in sporting events.

link