[puppycodes]

The differences between cisgender bodies are already so varied that the logic falls apart almost immediately.

For that matter why not restrict rich athletes who have access to training and equipment that poor athletes do not?

The point at where the line is drawn is entirely arbitrary. Gattaca vibes.

[pureagave]

What would happen if we didn't allow a female category for power lifting? Just have human power lifting. Does the NFL have a ban on women in NFL? I don't know but the teams look as I expect they would even without a ban.

[happytoexplain]

Don't we already sub-categorize within a gender? E.g. boxing. I don't actually know how common that is or why some sports get this treatment and not others.

[puppycodes]

Boxing is often the example given because its someone getting hurt, but when you actually break it down it also falls apart for boxing.

If we measured everyones strength, bone density, etc... in order to stop people from risking injury that would be one thing But basing it on your Chromosomes is lazy and inaccurate.

The point is that "fairness" being tied to whether your Cis or Trans is a hilarious hill to die on when we have advanced medical technology to actually test what we deem "fair".

[happytoexplain]

To be clear, I used that example because it was the only one I could think of, not for some rhetorical reason (which serves your point anyway, really).

I agree if we could just distill "here's your objective good-at-tennis score" for everybody and draw lines using those numbers, that makes sense. It feels unrealistic? I.e. we already don't do that - it doesn't necessarily feel like 100% an anti-trans thing (orthogonal obviously to the large amount of anti-trans sentiment that generally exists). Maybe Elo for everything?

[puppycodes]

Yeah for sure.

My point is just that fairness in the Olympics is fake and always has been.

Someones Chromosomes are such a poor way to measure their physical abilities especially when the bar is so high for top athletes in the field.

[wrs]

I follow sport climbing, which has always seemed like a great example of this.

Climbing ability isn’t just a matter of strength or any other single dimension. E.g., the women’s routes are set on the assumption they’re more flexible than the men, not just less strong. Climbers come in many different shapes and sizes. Some climbers look like string beans, others look like they grew up lifting cows.

And BTW, there are women (Janja Garnbret, and Akiyo Noguchi before her) who dominate the women’s competition for years, to the degree that everyone else is almost playing for second place. It’s routinely speculated that Janja could regularly reach the men’s semi-finals.

[bluecalm]

Rock climbing is one sport known for small differences in performance between men and women. This is unlike about any other sport out there where a difference is huge (the worst male aspiring semi-pro is often better than a top woman).