[chii]

a lot of people determine what is right by who is on that side - the right side is the group that they identify with, and the wrong side is the group they dislike.

And you get the hilarious (if not sad) situations often, where the exact same actions is wrong if committed by one group, and right if done by some other group.

[lowercased]

Maybe I dislike a party because they're wrong, not that I think they're wrong becuase I dislike them? I usually don't have any reason to like or dislike a party until I see behaviour.

[snapcaster]

That's not hilarious or sad. It's valid to oppose your enemies and support your allies. It takes a certain kind of educated liberal bubble to think that is "hilarious"

[jdlshore]

Some people think that justice should be blind, and that’s long been an ideal in the US.

[snapcaster]

I'm just so sick of people in our tribe who REFUSE to ever name their enemies. We're doing everything in good faith against people who hate us and want us to die. It's silly, and standing on some principle of equality while we continually lose over and over is sad to watch

[sethaurus]

It's a matter of integrity. Support or oppose whoever you like, but if you change your principles based on the person in question, then you don't have principles at all.

[snapcaster]

Are you pro or anti touchdown? Do you support or oppose winning? Is supporting my allies winning and enemies losing wrong?

[GoblinSlayer]

Why not, people are different and principles can account for that. It might mean that your alignment isn't fully lawful.

[Eisenstein]

What happens is that it takes the form of attributing bad things to enemies and good things to allies, such that you are blind to where your allies are not your allies. If your allies are acting opposed to your interests but you like them because they signal to you as an in group, then you are being fooled by them. Thus, it is good to actually evaluate things on their merits once in a while.

[snapcaster]

The "blind" ones are people like you! doing everything in good faith against people who aren't and fundamentally oppose you and your existence. Foolish!

[Eisenstein]

It is only foolish if you would be happier as a cynic.

[snapcaster]

Sitting down at a table to play poker and refusing to acknowledge the rest of the players are trying to take your money isn't "avoiding cynicism" it's just being a mark

[Eisenstein]

But approaching every social interaction as a zero-sum game where you are competing with others is not only cynical but exhausting and makes one unbearable to be around. If you want to do that, then I guess you will be in good company hanging out with the bad-faith liars you feel are worth destroying your own values to combat.

[Dylan16807]

Support your allies, yes.

Think everything they do is right? Hell no.

And every once in a while you need to check if your list of allies should change.

[convolvatron]

doesn't that undermine the entire reason to have laws? if they are really just excuse to punish our enemies and reward our friends, why even bother with the pretense of a trial?

[snapcaster]

The reason we have laws is to protect the powerful from mobs right?

[GoblinSlayer]

Laws protect interests of the ruling class. If interests are insufficient reason, then what is sufficient?

[PunchyHamster]

It leads to keeping the bad people on your "side" just because they share some of the values

> It takes a certain kind of educated liberal bubble to think that is "hilarious"

No, the hilarious part is that the "educated liberal bubble" will do exactly that thing, and then wonder why everyone else is seeing them as crazies; because they'd rather side with bad actors on their side purely because other side is attacking them, no matter the reason.

And of course, not only them. It's natural human herd behavior. And it leads to absolutely terrible end results

The crime is the crime. No matter the leaning of the criminal

[beepbooptheory]

Its "valid" to do anything in this context weirdo, it isnt like a veridical thing!

"It is valid to love my mom, even when she makes me clean my room. This is the thing liberals will never understand."

Don't you have some "cathedral" you gotta go neckbeard on about somewhere else? Perhaps a divorce court hearing?

[snapcaster]

Wow you got my demographics and political opinions wrong entirely! We almost certainly vote for the same people. I'm just so sick of people in our tribe who REFUSE to ever name their enemies. We're doing everything in good faith against people who hate us and want us to die. It's silly, and standing on some principles while we continually lose over and over is sad to watch