[rainworld]

The notion that the bombings constituted an informed political decision intended to forestall an otherwise unavoidable invasion, and that Japan wasn’t ready to surrender is a complete retcon.[0] But a great example of how well Americans control the narrative—even eight decades after the fact. If anyone else did them they would be condemned as Great Crimes of History.

[0]: Truman didn’t order Hiroshima, and didn’t even know about Nagasaki. He did stop them after that.

[dh2022]

Japan did not surrender after the Tokyo raid in March 1945 which killed more people than the individual bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [0] and the emperor urged Japanese people to fight. Japan planned a full out defense of the 4 main islands, starting in Kyushu - operation Ketsugo [1].

The Emperor only changed its mind after the first atomic bomb drop on Hiroshima. The Big Six did not accept the American terns (Big Six wanted no invasion, wanted Japan to try its own war criminals, and wanted the Emperor to lead the country and answer to no-one). The Emperor gad to tell the council of Big Six that he already made up his mind to accept unconditional surrender and that he was going to tell Japan the very next day. Some military officers stormed the place trying to steal the radio recording of the Emperor. Army Minister Anami committed suicide because he could not bear to hear the radio address [2]

Japan military was geared to fight to the end on the main islands and dropping the atomic bombs was necessary to stop them. Dropping the bombs saved American lives, and maybe even some Japanese ones.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo#Operation_Mee...

[1] https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/di...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korechika_Anami

[rurban]

> Japan did not surrender after the Tokyo raid in March 1945 which killed more people than the individual bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Wrong. Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed way more people than the Tokyo firebombing 250.000 and 110.000 vs 80.000), and needed only a single bomb on a single plane, compared to the massive efforts to destroy Tokyo.

[dh2022]

Oh really? <s> I will believe you after you convince Wikipedia to fix the page i linked in my previous post </s>.

Snark aside, your total may be including victims of radiation that died months and years later. If so, these victims were not incorporated in the decision made by the Emperor 2 days later - because these deaths did not happen yet and were not foretold/expected. (And you should also adjust your posting).

[rurban]

I've rechecked, you were right.

Radiation deaths after the bombing were neglectable though. 3000 more cancer deaths, leukemia.

[dh2022]

And to address your last phrase. I do not know what you mean by Truman did not order Hiroshima, and did not even know about Nagasaki.

But it should be clear that, while Truman delegated authority for picking up targets and dropping the bomb to military and State department, Truman along with the rest of his administration Sec of State Byrnes, Sec of War Stimson, Chief of Staff Gen. Marshall already decided the atomic bomb will be dropped on Japan. When Sec of State Byrnes explicitly warned the Japanese about "prompt and utter destruction" he meant exactly that. [0]

Dropping the bomb was done with Truman's approval.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration#Terms