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by gf000
87 days ago
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> That because a similar things happen fairly regularly in Linux land. It seems every 5 years (or so it seems) There are things that are working perfectly fine, and then someone/some group decided that half of a particular stack needs rewriting/replacing at <large corp> and we go through a rigmarole of bugs, breakage, stability issues. You are free to use whatever you feel like, no one stops you. At the same time, you are not free to request for/expect other people's free work in maintaining stuff forever for you. If you want it to continue to work, feel free to step up and maintain Xorg/your DE of choice, whatever. Also, both systemd and Wayland are just factually better stuff than their predecessors. Not everything is NIH, there are legitimate technological advances we are better off adapting at one point - see git, not managing the complex process of system boot via hacky bash scripts, or package management (we are not yet ready, but nix is the future, all other package management systems are objectively worse). It is just sometimes in an easier context to be replaced. Display stack is tightly depended on by all kinds of software and no matter how good an interop it has (xwayland), people will always find problems and blame the new tool. The network effect should not be underestimated. |
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I was merely explaining to the person why people become resentful as they didn't seem to grasp it.
It was neither condoning or condemning the position. Simply why it happens.
> At the same time, you are not free to request for/expect other people's free work in maintaining stuff forever for you. If you want it to continue to work, feel free to step up and maintain Xorg/your DE of choice, whatever.
1) I wasn't doing anything of the sort. I am also allowed to criticise anything I like and for any reason I like. I don't expect anyone to take any notice of it either. Statements such as this is done by people simply to shut people up.
2) You and I both know that isn't possible for the vast majority of people. Further more even if it were, it is basically a second full time job, which most people don't have the time to do.
Therefore I treat statements such as this as disingenuous.
> Also, both systemd and Wayland are just factually better stuff than their predecessors.
So says you. The fact that there is a huge amount of disagreement and discussion over it would suggest otherwise.
All I will say is that. I was using Linux distros way before Wayland and SystemD were even conceived and things worked about as well as they do now, outside of hardware support.
I use Debian 13 that comes with Wayland and SystemD as default. So I don't care what I use, as long as it works.
> Package management (we are not yet ready, but nix is the future, all other package management systems are objectively worse).
Thomas Sowell is often quoted as saying "there are no solutions, only tradeoffs". When people make statements like this, I honestly don't think they fundamentally understand what Engineering is really about. Every solution has a bunch of trade offs.
I don't know much about NixOS, but spending 5 minutes searching there are a bunch of trade offs you have to make when using it. Which means it is at best not objectively better. Not mentioning those makes me think you are a fanboy, and you can never get an honest assessment from fanboy.
> It is just sometimes in an easier context to be replaced. Display stack is tightly depended on by all kinds of software and no matter how good an interop it has (xwayland), people will always find problems and blame the new tool.
People will blame the replacement if it doesn't substantially offer anything new, while introducing news defects and limitations.
That is the issue. Not that they are just curmudgeon. It is a completely rational and correct to be critical of change when the perceived benefit at best marginal.