[gpm]

I was not in fact repeating the prior assertions. I was explaining why we know they are cheaper to operate. Because we know the costs of both them and the alternative. No fancy deductions needed where we're arguing "well electricity is cheaper than diesel but we don't know how much they use" or something.

I am certainly not backing down from the claim that "they are simply cheaper to operate". That is an absolutely trivial claim that is entirely obvious to anyone even remotely familiar with numbers in this space.

I would note I was discussing trucks that swap batteries - and thus the "paying drivers to wait around while trucks recharge" step doesn't exist. I'll also note all the other costs you are listing are capital costs not operational ones. Broadly speaking for most uses we appear to have crossed the threshold where the total cost of ownership is lower for most tasks, but for some niches (like "ice road shipping") I doubt the buildout is worth it (yet).

[maxglute]

To attach some rough numbers, TCO of PRC electric truck (which cost 2x diesel) went from paying for itself in 4-5 years at $60 barrels to 2 years at $100. Diesel increase to $150, it pays for itself in 1 year.

[hollerith]

OK, then can you name one deployed fleet of trucks anywhere that uses swappable batteries?

According to an unreliable source that gives fast answers to my questions, U.S. freight companies spent approximately $32 billion to $36 billion on new diesel Class 8 trucks in 2025.

Now are we to believe that these companies and their investors are foolish? That they didn't do calculations and consult experts before spending this money?

Are we to assign more weight to comments here on HN assuring us that electric trucks are cheaper in total cost of ownership than diesel trucks? -- comments that cost the writers nothing but a few minutes of time?

Countries dependent on the Persian Gulf's remaining open to international shipping trade shouldn't just blindly copy U.S. freight companies here: for those countries, any extra cost for an electric fleet might be worth the peace of mind of knowing they will always be able to deliver food, medicine and other essentials to their populations. France for example takes all aspects of its national security seriously and relies almost completely on imports for any fossil fuels it uses. In response it is electrifying as much of its economy as practical (and continuing to invest heavily in nuclear electricity production and renewables).

[defrost]

The 23 Janus trucks hauling cement in Australia - they're likely doing a few more by now.

That's been going on for three years now, so they'd have some data.

Addendum: Found battery change footage from a year past- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj9pdB9cYVQ

Rio Tinto (runs fleets of 100 tonne+ haul paks at many global sites) is running EV heavies in China and Australia with an eye to expand that usage:

* https://australianminingreview.com.au/news/rio-drives-electr...

* https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20251204183951/en/BHP...

Mobile electric shovels for loading haul paks straight off the blasted shelf have been a thing for 50+ years now: https://www.komatsu.com.au/equipment/electric-rope-shovels

[maxglute]

Many major close loop operations, i.e. mines, heavy industrial clusters, ports where trucks stay on location with ~100% utilization rates have been electric for a few years now, trial started in ~2020. Started with something like 10 pilot cities, now standardized around CATL #75 pack and been mass rollout last few years, there are literally 1,000s of fleets running on battery swap now. Goal is something like 80% of highway freight done by swap stations by 2030.

>Now are we to believe that these companies and their investors are foolish? That they didn't do calculations and consult experts before spending this money?

Or you know smart investors/planners making peace with stupid US energy policy the precludes freight electrification which is vastly more economical if there was state capacity to deploy it economically.

[hollerith]

That's good news. Thanks for the reply (all 3 repliers).

[gpm]

CATL via it's subsidiary QIJI is one example... with well over a thousand operational stations swapping batteries.

Considering your persistent rude tone and denial of basic facts that you could simply google this is probably the last time I'll respond to you.

Edit: PS. Real nice expanding your comment from one line to four paragraphs after I responded.