[jmuguy]

Well usually when people refer to someone as a prepper its the specific type of person that is buying hundreds of guns, tons of dehydrated meals but still living on city water - like they're preparing for a disaster movie but not anything real. Specifically the idea that you would be able to stay in place, with all your hoarded disaster crap, during the end of the world is kind of funny.

[wisty]

Do you know of any preppers who buy guns and rations but don't have a plan for water?

OK steelmanning you, certainly a lot of them are way more interested in gun collecting and making beef jerky than other aspects.

[bee_rider]

I don’t think we have a term for people who quietly keep a well stocked pantry, have a water setup, garden, have hobbies like canning, etc. That’s just being a bit rustic/prudent I guess. So then, the “prepper” derogatory label is only applied to the people who do it in the action movie/silly way. But, the question of how prevalent they are is a good one…

[judahmeek]

The term you're looking for is "homesteader"

[armenarmen]

Mormons?

[JuniperMesos]

Mormons have a widespread cultural practice of prepping, which I understand is mostly the sensible kind where you keep stocks of food and water onhand in case of a natural disaster (rather than the generally-less-sensible rifle militia LARPing). This is something that the institutional Church of Latter-Day Saints encourages among its members, and it strikes me as a pretty good thing to do. Nonetheless, there's no reason why you need to accept the other religious tenets of the LDS church in order to do sensible emergency preparedness, and I'm not sure that not every Mormon community or household is equally diligent about preparedness.

[pigpop]

Well, we did have a term for it until it got dragged and sensationalized in the media. I'd tell you that's a standard "psyop" that the propaganda arm of the government often uses against communities and subcultures that they want to discredit and suppress for one reason or another but then you'd probably call me a conspiracy theorist[1].

[1] another example of a successful smear campaign

[moorow]

"staff engineer"

[reaperducer]

the specific type of person that is buying hundreds of guns, tons of dehydrated meals

Both of which are available at Wal-Mart.

I always knew about the guns, but only recently discovered that Wal-Mart stores (at least in Louisiana) carry huge buckets with weeks worth of dehydrated survival food.

I'm sure it's for hurricanes. Yeah, that's it.

[vetrom]

This is a reductionist view of even the suburban United States IMO. There are plenty of locales in what I'd call 'middle suburbia', which I'd define as less than an hour from whatever their geographical city center is. Even in these areas, multiple day power outages, or other localized or regional disasters have been endemic in the last 25 years; often due to utility or local resource mismanagement.

Take, for example, the 2018 California Camp Fire, the various southern winter flash power outages, or the endemic hurricane season pretty much everywhere exposed to the middle or southern pacific.

"For hurricanes" is a cute way to minimize it, but in much of the country it's rather little that separates you from being left to your own devices, at least for a little while, even when you're just suburban and haven't even looked out to the rural U.S.

There is a real deferred maintenance and resource mismanagement issue in this country. The increasing evidence of "preppers" and items like ration buckets becoming prevalent at bulk store operations like Walmart & Costco are early indications of the increasing prevalence of these issues.

Take a survey of the items that are always available at most Costos or Sam's Clubs across the country and you'll see similar results. They essentially market decentralized infrastructure for those that can afford it (or those who can't afford not to have it).

[bombcar]

Costco sells those, too.

https://www.costco.com/p/-/mountain-house-1-year-emergency-f...

Sometimes they even appear in stores.

Apparently Mormons are required to keep some amount of emergency food on site.

[vetrom]

Say what you will about Mormons, but they take the idea of local stockpiles amazingly seriously. It rises to the point where they subsidize stores selling bulk food product direct to customers, at a scale that otherwise you'd need a Sysco or commercial restaurant license in most places to get access to.

Source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/life/home-storage-center... (In older literature & analysis it used to be called the LDS Cannery or LDS Dry Cannery, but I guess they recently rebranded it.)

[yobert]

Not required. It's recommended by the church leadership though to have a garden and to have a years supply of food storage if you can. I'm not a Mormon but appreciate it as a good idea.

[rpdillon]

If you're thinking about a period without power after a disaster, you're supposed to have a gallon of clean water per person per day, along with food that can be prepared in that environment. At least according to https://www.ready.gov/kit.

For me, it made a ton of sense to buy a couple of boxes of MREs and some Mountain House meals for this. They last decades, and they double as camping food.

[K0balt]

I think that pepper mostly exists in movies.

Certainly some people probably emulate the Hollywood version, but I think that’s about it.

Most “peppers” are fathers that have had the good sense to pause and think “so, what would I be able to do to serve my family if something disastrous happened? What might that look like?”

Usually, a disaster go-bag of some kind with enough basic supplies to weather a day or two of displacement suspension of normal services. Sometimes, if they live in a place where it’s reasonable to imagine staying put is a good option, they might also have a generator and fuel, a week or two worth of long shelf life food, and some water storage. That ensures the wellbeing of their family will not be contingent on outside help, at least during most common disasters. Many of these people may also have a gun or two, for defense or for hunting if they are rural.

Some people go beyond that, and sometimes with a military focus, other times with months of rations, a bunker, or other unusual preparations. Mostly, those are not based on realistic scenarios. In almost any protracted disruption, having a lot of supplies , armaments, or resources will be as much a liability as an asset. People that buy guns -for prepping- are just living out some kind of hero fantasy. If you own guns, and use guns as part of your normal life, it would make sense to have a solid reserve of ammunition. If guns are your disaster scenario, you’re going to have a bad day.

As an individual or nuclear family, to weather an extended problem, you’d need to have a literal secret underground lair that was either so hard to get to or so well hidden that no one would know, and you’d have to be completely self contained. That’s simply not practical for all but actual billionaires, but people cosplay this to varying degrees. Even billionaires might find ymmv.

A much more practical and wholesome approach is to be part of a community that includes farming, independent sources of power and water, and generally sustainable independence from less robust centralized systems. This provides for basic necessities as well as a common defense. Humans lived in tribes for a reason, and 30 people with well aligned incentives and sustainable infrastructure for food, water, and energy is probably the absolute minimum viable structure for security during a disruption of more than a couple of months. Otherwise you would be dependant on total stealth or extreme isolation. Some neighbourhoods would probably coalesce into something resembling this, but organisation ad-hoc under pressure would probably end up with tensions if not violence.

Projects like this one can be real resources for well organized communities. I’ll probably look at running this on our servers as an additional resource, along with our library.

[jmuguy]

I agree with you on actual preparedness and getting to know your neighbors.

However, I think the derogatory prepper must exist in some number because you see so many products clearly targeting them. All the tacticool stuff, the buckets of dehydrated food, etc etc

[tristor]

Why is a bucket of dehydrated food specifically targeting the stereotype/strawman you are constructing? Costco sells buckets of dehydrated food, and Costco is what comes to mind when I think middle of the road middle-class America. Do you think it's unreasonable to have a bucket of dehydrated food and enough water to last a week?

As someone who lived through the "Snowpocalypse" in Texas in 2021, had no power for 11 days and no water service for 6 days, I was very thankful that I had a backup source of indoor heating, a couple of boxes of MREs, and clean water for a week as just part of having good disaster preparedness, as well as the mylar emergency blankets I hung by fishing line from my ceiling fans so to help create a warm space for my family. All that stuff is just part of a prudent approach to disaster preparedness that anyone who grew up in the middle of the country and has a house would do.

I know quite a few people who you'd write off as "preppers" that are not consumed with fantasies of a zombie apocalypse, but are instead wanting to ensure that their family is taken care of with basic necessities, vital medication, and a set of viable contingency plans when you lose power, water, etc for days or weeks.

Also, nobody but the very wealthy have "hundreds of guns". Guns are expensive. Guns hold their value. Guns are an asset in some communities. But they are expensive, and therefore even rather serious gun people have tens, but not hundreds. I'm probably more of a gun nut than the average, and I definitely do not have "hundreds of guns". To even store "hundreds of guns" safely (e.g. safe from theft, if not for other reasons) I'd need enough money to build a dedicated room in my house just to hold them. "hundreds of guns" is an armory, not a collection. I'm in the top 1% of wealth in my community in Texas and used to shoot competitively, so I'm more of "gun nut" than average, and I can't even imagine owning "hundreds of guns". That's such an outlandish fantasy strawman you have in your mind, it's nothing close to realistic.

You're really just smearing people with stereotypes in this thread that have no basis in reality, and it's clear you're completely unprepared for the reality of what life is like anywhere in the middle of America, much less in much of the rest of the world.

[jmuguy]

Well for one thing - you'd get by a lot better with beans and rice and a functioning garden than overpriced dehydrated meals. And what I'm referring to by buckets (that is a lot/years supplies) of dehydrated food and who is being targeted are companies like this https://www.mypatriotsupply.com/pages/about-us

"We’re taking steps for survival for what we all know is coming. Today." I mean, come on.

Maybe I'm just beating around the bush too much - what I'm making fun of are people that are "prepping" for the end of the world. It is a silly (and strictly American, I imagine) fantasy to think that you're going to ride out the end of days sitting on a pile of guns and MREs. That is who I'm making fun of, and yes those people exist.

[K0balt]

Well, even though I am in general sympathetic to and even a proponent of disaster preparedness, there are undoubtedly people preparing to “ride out the end of days sitting on a pile of guns and MREs.” I have brushed against a few in my life. I count them as useful idiots, because now I know where there’s a pile of dehydrated food, if push comes to shove.

That said, I am convinced enough of the decay of western civilisation in general that I moved to a remote island nation and built a self contained off grid community, so I guess I am actually the extreme case of prepping. That’s certainly true, in a way, except it’s where my daily food, water, and power come from, and I am surrounded by a thriving community of family members and good friends. I honestly never thought I would see a cataclysm within my lifetime, so this was a legacy project for me, but it seems I may have been optimistic lol.

But I do agree with you that there are some nutty fruitcakes out there that are actually hoping for something bad to happen so that they can have their moment of glory, I suppose? It’s actually kinda sad.

I would say though it is uncharitable and even foolish to portray everyone who doesn’t have complete faith in the continuity of our Jenga Castle, especially in the context of recent events.

[jmuguy]

One of the principles of HN is to take the strongest meaning of an argument, instead of the weakest. I am not casting everyone who prepares for a disaster into the same bucket - I have specifically said I think that people who are attempting to prepare for the literal end of the world by stockpiling supplies are silly.

There are IMO a very small set of circumstances, out of many likely full collapse scenarios, where your average American (and make no mistake - I am specifically referring to Americans here) stockpiling junk is going to actually survive for very long.

This has nothing to do with faith in our society or institutions just that is uniquely American to think that you can buy your way out of any circumstance you can imagine.

[tristor]

> Well for one thing - you'd get by a lot better with beans and rice and a functioning garden than overpriced dehydrated meals.

The lived reality of the "Snowpocalypse" says otherwise. "A functioning garden" doesn't produce food when it's 2F (-16C) outside and there is a foot and a half of snow on the ground. Beans and rice require soaking/washing and cooking at high temperature to be edible, dehydrated food does not.

I have beans and rice on hand always as well because they're staples in my diet, but it's ridiculous to consider them comparable in the situation where you don't have power (e.g. no way to heat food easily) and the weather makes the outside dangerous and not conducive to gardening/food production.

You're just doubling-down on a strawman, and it's frankly utter bullshit. Be better.

[shrubby]

Sorry about this, but buckets. Buckets. Wow. https://youtu.be/rOH37W0jPpA?si=eIa_dcA9JLPvXRNK

[Gormo]

> I think that pepper mostly exists in movies.

What type of pepper are we talking about: piper or capsicum?

[xeyownt]

You can buy peppers in food shops. I recommend the red ones.

[philipallstar]

This is just a straw man, though. We all have biases of course.