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by lenwood 86 days ago
> So allowing housing prices to surge is literally taxing the poor for the benefit of the rich.

How do we limit home prices increasing? I see your point but solving this isn't trivial.

3 comments

There are a bunch of successful models, people usually mention Vienna as having a particularly effective housing policy - what they did is the city bought up a bunch of land, and built housing on top of it in various government subsidy programs, from non-profit public benefit corporations, to social housing for the poor.

They have strong renters rights, protections against rent increases, and high standards to which dwellings must conform to.

So while you can be a landlord in Vienna, you have to compete with affordable housing options, and you're forced to maintain a high quality yourself.

So that means that unless you can offer something the market's willing to pay extra for, being a landlord is not particularly lucrative thing.

Notice nowhere in my post did I mention the typical 'landlords are evil and must be taxed to death' approach.

Which is in stark contrast to most places where you're paying through the nose, the standard of rented dwellings is low and your rent can be increased or you can be kicked out on moments notice.

Build more housing
If investment companies that already own tens of thousands of homes buy them and keep increasing the rent, the problem has not been solved.
Investment companies own only about 2% of the housing market, and most of these are rented out. Investment companies aren't really the cause of housing prices remaining high - in moderate- and high-demand areas, we simply aren't building enough to keep up with demand.
Investing in housing only makes sense when supply is limited. The way to stop investors from hoarding housing is to make housing a bad investment by building a lot of it so cornering the market is impossible.
Except they cannot increase rents when there is enough supply for a market to actually work.
The market will remain irrational longer than…

Of course they can when they own them all. See De Beers diamonds. Buy them all, keep the price artificially high.

Diamond prices are famously crashing now due to artificial lab made diamonds (increased supply)
The De Beers cartel was able to avoid anti trust scrutiny because the best reserves are outside (Africa/Canada/Russia) of the most lucrative markets (US/Europe/Asia).

Corporations control only a small faction of housing supply.

They can only do that (own them all) with government assistance. See De Beers diamonds, who leveraged the legal system to create a monopoly.

The solution is to build more housing and get the government out of the picture.

Insanely stupid restrictions on residential construction make it easier.
land value tax would fix this
No, build more housing.
That's not a different choice. LVT makes it more expensive to hold land that's less productive than it could be, the result of which is that development is encouraged.
No, building more housing. Read the article.
You literally didn't read the article.

Build more housing.

I do really enjoy all the arguments coming up in this post that are pretty easily defeated by “build more housing”. No one has been able to come up with a compelling argument about why this doesn’t work.
Housing can not be both affordable and a good investment.

If we want housing to be affordable ie “limit them increasing” we have to stop people using them as investments.

There are many ways. My favourites are:

- one human can own one residential property. No companies or businesses can.

-or, property tax doubles (or 10x) with every residential property owned.

- no foreign ownership (Canada does this now)

- government can own and rent residential property at no profit. They supply plenty of other basic necessities of life, why not houses?

It can be both affordable and an investment - it cannot (and will not) perpetually be a market-beating top-tier investment.

All of the items above can have drastic unintended consequences; the way to keep prices affordable is to make sure that supply is always outstripping demand by a bit.

Some examples of unintended consequences:

* I can't add an ADU to my existing property which would add one more dwelling unit

* Subdivision of property is discouraged; combining parcels reduces tax even if no new dwelling units are created

* This might be the closest to doing something though it could substantially discourage non-citizen immigrants (legal or not)

* This has been tried before and had well-documented issues, but might be doable if they can provide a "floor"

At least in the US, up until the rise of 'flipping' and AirBnB home values typically tracked with inflation. Personally owned real estate was a hedge against inflation and a tax shelter, not an 'investment'.
> It can be both affordable and an investment

By definition if something is affordable, it’s not a good place to store money with the goal of it increasing.

> All of the items above can have drastic unintended consequences.

Yes, absolutely. These are not fully fledged solutions, but a starting point. Some of them may need an asterisk or two. Of course, unintended consequences are perfectly fine if the final result is better than what we have today

> I can't add an ADU to my existing property which would add one more dwelling unit

Your wife or kid could own it. If you don’t have either of those, you don’t need two homes.

> Subdivision of property is discouraged

Subdivision and sell is perfectly encouraged.

> This might be the closest to doing something though it could substantially discourage non-citizen immigrants (legal or not)

I am a non citizen immigrant in Canada. I just had to bide my time until I became a PR then could buy a house. Perfect.

> This has been tried before and had well-documented issues, but might be doable if they can provide a "floor"

Again, it doesn’t have to be perfect, just better than what we have now.

> it could substantially discourage non-citizen immigrants (legal or not)

Make an exception for owner-occupiers?

So like what California did, which resulted in only a couple hundred thousand units over half a decade when they were hoping for/needing a couple million statewide.

Not the mention that ironically, the private owners with the space to build an ADU on their lot are the ones most likely to already be wealthy, and not actually rent it out to anyone below their socioeconomic bracket.

> one human can own one residential property. No companies or businesses can.

So, in other words, you want everyone who cannot afford to outright buy a house to be homeless?

Not at all. The government should step on and rent them as rent to own systems. Make no profit
This is what apartments are for...
Why should housing be an investment?
Because we live in a democracy and voters want housing to be an investment because they own housing
The majority of voters would vote to make income tax zero, that doesn’t mean we should accept that simply because the majority wants it.

In the US the majority of voters just voted for a racist, homophobic pedophile convicted felon.That doesn’t mean everyone should shrug and say “it’s the will of the people”

I refuse to believe you would have this attitude if you and your family had to rent drinking water while people profited wildly from it.

The situation is unacceptable and needs to change, irrelevant of what certain people want.

Sure, I agree, but this isnt a technocracy. If you want the government to change you do need to convince the voters at large.

> The majority of voters would vote to make income tax zero

Im not sure this is true. Most people recognize the taxes are needed for the government to provide services.

> That doesn’t mean everyone should shrug and say “it’s the will of the people”

This is the reality though, it doesnt matter that you or I disagree. Trump is the legitimate president even if he's a racist, homophobic pedophile convicted felon.

I own both a car and an apartment. The former is not an investment and most money people say you shouldn't consider the one you live in an investment.