[branon]

I understand where the author is coming from but this bends a little too far towards "recording outside your door is bad and you should feel bad because you are a horrible paranoid person" for my taste.

The reality is that a lot of societies or locales are not high-trust and it makes sense to take steps to insure oneself/family/possessions.

Installing cameras on your property does not necessarily mean you have a destructive attitude, are suspicious or paranoid, or that you are storing and cataloging events. It's a set-and-forget system that the majority of users probably don't think about on a daily basis. You install them in the hopes that you'll never have to use them.

I also reject the idea that installing a surveillance system means treating neighbors as enemies. Well-meaning people should implicitly understand that the surveillance isn't directed towards them in that way.

This is also why Amazon Ring and cloud-connected mass surveillance systems should receive scrutiny - these DO mean exposing your neighbors to third parties who may treat them with suspicion.

I would rather a more grounded argument like "_Amazon Ring_ is bad and you should feel bad, get a better surveillance system" because currently this article's reasoning is very nebulous and subjective.

[dd8601fn]

I don't think I'm overly paranoid. I do still have a HomeKit compatible encrypted video doorbell that cannot talk to any outside vendor.

Once in a while it has turned out to have been good to have. Never critical, but good to have. And I don't have to give everything to [Amazon/Ring|Flock|local PD|whoever]... unless I choose to.

[grebc]

What does a surveillance system actually give you? Have you dealt with Police after break in & robberies?

I was a building manager for 6 years and Police took the footage over 10 times during my tenure, nothing was ever recovered by the police and recognised offenders were never bought to any sort of justice.

[branon]

The surveillance system gives you the footage. If police can't do anything with it, that's unfortunate, but not the fault of the surveillance system.

In this instance I'd say the surety and closure provided by the ability to simply review the footage is an important aspect for potential victims. And if victimized by something worse than petty theft, the value only goes up.

[grebc]

I’m not saying it’s the fault of the surveillance system if police don’t use it. But what is the actual benefit to you/society as a whole we film our neighbours never completely trusting them, if the people paid to protect others aren’t using it.

Seems superfluous if police don’t use it when provided to them voluntarily.

[IAmBroom]

Your unfortunate experience is far from universal. It is anecdata.

[grebc]

Where do you live Broom? It’s a pretty universal situation when I’ve discussed it with others all over Australia.

[nickthegreek]

It tells me when packages are on the porch. This is the main value add for me.

I’ve been debating adding a camera pointed a bit more outward, as there at least 5 2 car accidents a year at the intersection outside my house of a 1 way road without a stop sign and a 2 way narrow city road with a stop sign. At least 1 of these accidents every 2 years ends up hitting my neighbors house.

[leetbulb]

Yep, I mostly just enjoy generally knowing what's going on around my property at a glance, especially when it's inconvenient to go outside.

Checking if there's a package at the garage or front door. Generating a time-lapse of outdoor projects. Discovering the neighbor's idiot contractor that wants to dig on the property or get through the fence for something. Observing weather while taking shelter. Figuring out what caused the loud bang on a window (usually birds) or the roof (usually a tree branch). Observing the behavior of neighborhood or wild animals that manage to slip through the fence. Keeping an eye on outdoor contractors while I'm busy with work. Ensuring that one of the neighborhood kids aren't sneaking around being a liability with the pool, hot tub, or countless other dangers. Checking if I forgot to place the trash at the curb after randomly waking up at 3am. Capturing the hilarious moment a buddy and I shot a stream of E85 directly on a stack of 2x4s when we upgraded my car's fuel pump and forgot to connect the low-pressure line. My partner likes to watch squirrels eat nuts that she sets outside.

Sometimes it's fun to play around with the several months of recorded data just for the sake of experimentation. Similarly, I also enjoy capturing stuff on ISM bands like 433MHz, and not because I am nosy, paranoid, or have malicious intent; but, because it's free and open data observable within the environment that I live, and analyzing it is simply interesting to me.

[IAmBroom]

There used to be a FedEx delivery guy in Pittsburgh that would photograph packages in place, then steal them. I know this because I once got the notification while he was still pulling away - and the package was gone. Happened a few times, but only when there was a photo taken (back then, it wasn't common for them to do that).

Wish I had a video cam back then.

[grebc]

Do you not go outside much?

[IAmBroom]

I have a mentally ill teenage neighbor, who used to break in and steal from me. I knew it was him, but I needed video proof.

Once I had that, I called the police, and pressed charges, and FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE he went to court for his actions. He had previously made multiple assaults on his mother, even attempting to kill her, and the police only took him to a juvenile mental facility for a few hours to days: no court history.

THAT is what it actually gives you: actionable proof. What the fancy judge-types call "evidence".

[Reubachi]

Twice I have relied on mine and neighbors ring camera for proof hat I did not cause damage to my vehicle on insurance claims, and was instead another driver(s)/hit and runner(s).

Wether insurance went after those people for the claims or police, it certainly helped me there.

Same is said for dash cameras. It is in 99 percent of scenarios for "set and forget" not for some malicious anti-neighbor behavior

[dmitrygr]

Historically, eventually the people realize that the state is doing too little to protect them from crime. Usually, at that point in time, a posse is formed. Having images of repeatedly-encountered perps can be very useful to a posse.

[IAmGraydon]

A posse. I see.

[dmitrygr]

something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy

This is exactly what lack of law-enforcement eventually leads normal people to do

[IAmBroom]

I grew up near there. Agree 100%: that man needed removal from society, and the local law enforcement and judge weren't going to do that. (Rape of a 13yo, forced marriage of same, years of massive drug running, carrying a weapon openly as a felon into bars where no non-LEO can legally carry... He was more evil than you imagined before clicking on that link.)

The town did all they could for his poor widow, and she kept quiet about whatever she might have seen...

[dmitrygr]

And we now again live in a time where such things are done and go un (or under) punished. This is why I expect more of that. I do not celebrate it, but I expect it.

[jjj123]

I think it’s fine if your Ring camera is only pointing at your property. If it’s pointing into a public spaces, then yeah I think you are doing something bad and you should be shamed for doing it.