[SV_BubbleTime]

Objectively, which is hard to say because I’m just obviously not in this position, but if I were in the United States legally and I’m looking at three options…

1. I take self-deportation offer. At Christmas it was $3000 a person, but usually $1000, a commercial plane ticket anywhere, and I can come back to the US upon following the legal method. I can say goodbye to people I can sell my things. I can do this on my own timeline within reason.

2. I’ve risk it and trying to invade ice for the next three years minimum. If Vance wins, I need to make it to at least 2032 without showing up on any radar. I’m careful and looking over my shoulder constantly and work is a never ending dread.

3. I am caught by ICE. I have absolutely no claim to stay in the US. I can sit in a detention center while an NGO funded lawyer tells me that I do. And in high likelihood, I am sent back with no money on a cargo jet and I’m banned from the United States forever. This happens at any moment.

Practically speaking, I just cannot picture taking option two which could be three at any time. The fact is, I would know without a doubt, unfair or not that I am here legally, that my state would apply in any European country as well. I cannot fathom how option one is not the best option. Perhaps I’m too risk adverse.

[estearum]

"A commercial plane ticket anywhere" != the legal right to go anywhere

Pretty much you go back to your country of origin

Typically people take on the immense risk and challenge of leaving their country of origin to come here because their country of origin has really bad problems

Those problems likely still exist or have gotten worse over the last several years due to (if nothing else) COVID further separating the US economy from the rest of the world's

[SV_BubbleTime]

> Pretty much you go back to your country of origin

Is this not just? Is this not what every other country in the world would do? Is there a European country you can stay in illegally? Do any of them run remigration programs with cash and free flights to where you came from?

[estearum]

I didn't say it was unjust, nor did I say it was unique to the US, etc. etc.

I said that your logic tree elides the fact that they would be going back to a place that they already accepted an immense amount of risk and effort to leave.

In other words: for many people, the US + ICE risk (relatively low risk of catastrophic outcome) is still far better than their home country (high risk of pretty bad outcome)

[antonkochubey]

>A commercial plane ticket anywhere" != the legal right to go anywhere Pretty much you go back to your country of origin

Most passports grant at least a medium term admission to dozens of countries, and long term to a few.

[lesostep]

>> Pretty much you go back to your country of origin I'm completely out of my depths there, can you explain how will they know my country of origin if I'm undocumented?

[estearum]

Well if they don't, they'll just pick a random as-awful-as-possible country to send you to.

[vablings]

1. You will be deported to your country of origin one way ticket; there is no picking and choosing here 3. If you are detained by ICE even if you do have legal status they will endlessly pressure you into singing away your rights, you will be lucky to even speak to you NGO lawyer because every few days you are shipped between detention locations. Even if you choose to self-deport you have to be detained by ICE and could be in custody for a number of days before you are shipped out of the country. The lawyer is not going to sugar coat your situation but if you want to fight there are legal avenues to do so. Also you cannot be banned from the USA forever the max the DHS can issue is a 10-year ban

[SV_BubbleTime]

Your number 3 makes no sense, if you have “signed your rights away” why would they move you? For fun?

But let’s say that’s the case… doesn’t that just prove my point that if you are here illegally, that it make no sense to stay?

[estearum]

Them: If you are detained by ICE even if you do have __legal status__

You: doesn’t that just prove my point that if you are here __illegally__

They're talking about the now well-established fact that ICE is pursuing people who have legal status in this country and using all sorts of tricks (both legal and illegal) to prevent them from exercising their rights.

Here's one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%...

[SV_BubbleTime]

I’m sure there is a better example that makes the point you are going for.

Without muddying, the discussion is if you are here illegally, it seems better to self-deport and control your own destiny than to risk ICE for the next 3-11+ years.

[vablings]

Sorry to clarify. You are moved around the country continually so that it is exceedingly difficult to get in front of a judge and also speak to your lawyer. This is basically torture to most people, you are then pressured and repeatedly asked (in some cases lied to) to sign documents agreeing to be deported

The definition of being "illegal" in the eyes of the law is not actually really well defined at all. It is pretty much a vibe check

Entered via a port of entry and visa overstay? "illegal"

Entered via a port of entry and visa overstay, but now you have legal status? "Maybe you are illegal"

Entered not via a port of entry? "You are illegal"

Entered via a port of entry with legal status? "Legal but you might get detained for several days"

Entered via a port of entry with legal status but you attended a protest? "Legal but the government doesn't like you so expect to be detained"

Born and raised in the United States but don't carry your passport? "Legal but expected to be detained"

Entered via a port of entry with legal status BUT you have a traffic ticket and a bench warrant out of state "Illegal and criminal! Expect to be deported"

Might I add that only one of these above conditions is valid for deportation and a ban and every other is a violation of your rights

[hypeatei]

This administration changes its tune based on what business/tech leaders are telling them[0][1]. There's no doubt that ICE will be used for selective enforcement (as we've seen them used at American protests) but some immigrants are probably staying based on the reality that business interests are more important.

Also, I would be hesitant to say that immigrants being targeted by ICE are "illegal" as we saw some be detained/deported after speaking out against the war in Gaza[2]. Also, a lot claim asylum at the border which is a legal process.

> and I can come back to the US upon following the legal method

That process in reality takes a really long time due to the federal immigration system being strained. The 2024 border bill tried to address this by adding more immigration judges and asylum officers but Trump told Republicans to kill it because it'd make Biden look good. So far all we got was a massive DHS funding increase that allowed Kristi Noem to funnel $100M+ to herself and her friends and kill two American citizens with ICE.

0: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/15/us/politics/farm-labor-tr...

1: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5601588-trump-h1...

2: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2026/03/17/immigrati...

[SV_BubbleTime]

> The 2024 border bill

Oh ya, I remember that. The Democrat bill with a few Republicans that conservatives call RINOs on board. Collins, McConnell, Murkowski, etc.

Again, objectively, it does look bad that bill was to secure the border but Trump Admin seems to have done that without a bill.

[estearum]

> Again, objectively, it does look bad that bill was to secure the border but Trump Admin seems to have done that without a bill.

This is a matter of simply breaking the law.

The border is secured in the sense that Trump has made the US such an unappealing destination that fewer people want to risk it. It's a valid strategy (if awful) except in that doing so essentially requires the government to violate laws.

Turns out it's easy to "solve problems" when you aren't constrained by laws. Not an insight whatsoever.

Specific laws being violated:

* Due Process protections

* Equal Protection

* Asylum laws

Actually towards the end of the Biden administration, they engaged in similar law-breaking because immigration was obviously going to be such a political liability going into the election. Those moves have since been found to be illegal: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/district-court-strikes-d...

Most of the Trump admin's moves to make the US so unappealing that no one wants to risk coming here will also ultimately be found to be illegal.

[rchaud]

1. If ICE isn't getting paid, how likely is it that you, as an illegal alien, would be? And who says you wouldn't simply be detained anyway when you go to claim your check/prepaid gift card? That's what happened to people when they were lined up outside immigration court and following the agreed-upon process.