[antics]

Hi Joseph! Good to see you here.

Sorry, I see why this was confusing. What I'm saying is that because users perceive the results of OT, CRDTs, prosemirror-collab, etc. as data corruption, they require presence carets as a UI affordance, to steer them away from direct edit conflicts.

If you can't have presence carets, yes... likely best to have a diff view. And in our case, we use git/jj for this, rather than CRDTs.

For the "history of" stuff... in spite of the fact that we have our disagreements, I actually think it would be very nice to have Kevin and everyone else on the record long-form talking about this. Just because I am a non-believer doesn't mean it wasn't worth trying!

[josephg]

> For the "history of" stuff... in spite of the fact that we have our disagreements, I actually think it would be very nice to have Kevin and everyone else on the record long-form talking about this. Just because I am a non-believer doesn't mean it wasn't worth trying!

I'd enjoy that too. Hit me up if you wanna chat about this stuff - I'd enjoy the opportunity to convince you over video. Maybe even recorded, if people are interested in that.

[ghProTip]

> Maybe even recorded, if people are interested in that.

I would be. IIRC you interviewed the Yjs creator years ago in a YT video I watched? This post has been fun spicey discourse not withstanding. It's not often a lot of the people in the collab space are together in the same spot, and the clash of academics and product builders is valuable.

As an aside I'd put Marjin in the product builder side. A lot of people dabble in collab algorithms and have a hobby editor on the side, but he created and maintains the most popular rich text editor framework on the planet(made up statistic, but seems true!).

[antics]

lol ok we can talk and record it. I want to make it clear that this is NOT a debate, though. I actually want to be convinced!