[3rodents]

I disagree with the idea that it's "not the moment for plant-based meat". Beyond Meat has a fantastic product that does very well in lots of markets. The problem is that Beyond Meat the company was valued as some sort of once in a generation radical reimagining of the way we eat. Beyond Meat's product is not going to change the world, it's just a good product.

If Beyond Meat had grown organically, instead of raising hundreds of millions of dollars, it would be a great company doing great things today. Instead, it has failed to live up to the unrealistic expectations that were set for it. Beyond Meat is no different than any of the other zirpicorns.

[paxys]

Yup, the product is fine, but there's a reason all the other brands in the freezer aisle aren't raising hundreds of millions of dollars at 100x multiples. Burgers don't scale like smartphone apps.

Here's a comparison - Tyson Foods, best known for their frozen meat, had a revenue of $54.44 billion last year. Their current market cap is $21.77 billion.

Beyond Meat reported an annual revenue of $87.9 million in their 2018 S-1, and post-IPO reached a peak market cap of $14.1 billion.

See the issue with these numbers?

[bsjshshsb]

I was having trouble understanding the issue then I realized 87.9 MILLion with an M. Ok I see lol.

[Ekaros]

I feel like AI and "tech" has normalised billions way too much. So even as millions are really a lot we don't even think about those anymore... Crazy crazy world.

[nickff]

I think that 'real product' (as opposed to software) companies would actually benefit more from raising capital from equity instead of 'bootstrapping', because of the taxes on retained earnings, which have a disproportionate impact on capital-intensive business. That said, I agree that the P/E multiple on Impossible and Beyond were best described by the descriptors in their respective names...

[happytoexplain]

The way the market has moved away from valuing "just a good product" (and, by extension, "just a good service", "just a good business", and "just a good employee") is one of the factors destroying life as the developed world has known it for 80 years.

[PunchyHamster]

the market didn't. The investors did

[happytoexplain]

I guess I think of the investors as more representative of "The Market" than the traditional entities (producers, consumers) - which is the whole problem.

[choilive]

Investors are not part of the market?

[xp84]

The investors? They were part of the market. But after the front fell off they’ve been towed outside the market.

And it’s perfectly safe out there. There’s nothing out there but mission statements and TAM slides and pea-protein slurry.

And $1.8 billion of burned cash.

[legitster]

I have the opposite reaction. Beyond Meat is not a good product. It tastes gross.

It's not as good as the meat it's comparing itself against, and it's not as good as the vegetarian options also available in the store, and it's more expensive than either.

Anytime can "be the moment" for plant-based meat if the product technology was there, but it's not.

[thewebguyd]

> it's not as good as the vegetarian options also available in the store

I've tried the beyond burgers, they were alright taste wise, but yeah there's many other options for a protein source.

Beyond Meat was never going to convince people to eat less meat by substituting it for fake burgers and steaks. For people that already eat vegetarian there already tastier sources of protein. Lentils, beans, quinoa, chickpeas, mushrooms, nuts & seeds, etc. All of those have much more flexibility with how you can incorporate them into dishes than a fake slab of "meat."

> more expensive than either.

This is a political problem. In the US animal agriculture receives far more funding than plant-based protein. Without government subsidies, a pound of ground beef would cost closer to $30-$40. We've historically defined food security int he US as "meat and dairy," two of the things we really need to consume less of because of environmental impacts.

But yeah, Beyond Meat wasn't going to get us there. We need real political changes, not fake meat.

[malfist]

I disagree, I enjoy beyond and impossible beef and their sausage. I'll often (though not always) opt for it while out because I think it tastes close enough to the real deal and doesn't have the ethical concerns of real meat. I am not vegetarian or vegan, though I do sympathize with their point of view. If bean burgers actually tasted good I might occasionally get those but they're gross

[ocdtrekkie]

I happily eat real meat, I'm not vegetarian or vegan and I think Beyond burgers are pretty darn good. I'm just cheap and Beyond isn't.

[legitster]

> If bean burgers actually tasted good I might occasionally get those but they're gross

Bean burgers are actually delicious depending on the brand and how you dress them up. It doesn't taste like a smash burger, but if you get a brand that grills up nice and crispy and pair it with a nice spicy mayo, it's legitimately a good burger.

Also, don't sleep on the humble Boca burger which has existed for decades. It's not as good looking as Beyond Beef but I would argue it's better tasting.

[malfist]

Every time I've tried a bean burger, including the boca burger it's always been immensely disappointing. Other people love them, and that's fine, but bean burgers are more burger adjacent than burger substitute. It's a different thing with a different flavor profile, even if it's shaped and styled like a hamburger. Beyond meat though, it's a burger substitute. Tasted so close to real meat that unless it's been undercooked or over salted it's hard to tell a difference.

[wewtyflakes]

I feel this way as well. There was a moment in time several years ago where I would see the alt-meat burgers in restaurants and so I would order them from time-to-time because they tasted fine and it didn't kill a cow. Now I hardly see it available, or, if I do, it costs extra.

[malfist]

I think part of the reason they've disappeared from menus is they were setup to fail. Often times the only option for it was just a basic hamburger. Place might have a dozen types of hamburgers but the alt_meat was only an option for the most boring basic cheeseburger

[mft_]

I disagree.

I’m ~97% vegetarian but there are a few foods for which traditional vegetarian alternatives are rubbish. One of these is the burger: you either get some odd veg/potato base pattie, a large grilled mushroom, or halloumi. The meat substitute burgers aren’t close to real beef burgers, but they’re far tastier than other vegetarian options.

[gs17]

> a large grilled mushroom

I really want to know why restaurants keep thinking this is a good alternative. I've never had one that wasn't just a mess to eat, and it's weirdly common to have people think it contains a significant amount of protein. However, I'm very happy with most veg patties, and would love halloumi as an option over Beyond any day.

[mft_]

Many non-vegetarian restaurants don't seem to care about the vegetarian options, and just offer almost default options. It's probably down to the attitude of the chef - similarly to how you can sometimes tell whether the chef is a 'sweet' lover or not, by the relative quality of the main courses vs. the desserts.

I first noticed this years ago when eating out with a (my first?) vegetarian friend in a variety of (omnivorous) restaurants and gastropubs. The number of times he'd have to choose the goats' cheese tart became a running joke.

[wolvoleo]

This is where beyond is doing so well because their burgers really are a lot closer to the real thing.

They're a lot better than a crappy low quality beef burger even, like a McDonald's patty. Not quite as good as a real steakhouse burger, but kinda in between. There's another brand that's about as good, impossible burger. Probably a bit better even but I've never tried them side by side.

The soy and potato varieties yes they're way worse than even McDonald's. They're not even trying to simulate a real burger, just the idea of 'some fried gunk on a bun'. But yeah no.

[BigGreenJorts]

+1 Burger King has the impossible whopper and it's definitely better than the McDo smash patties (big mac, mcdouble, cheeseburger etc). Obviously different restaurants, so not really making the comparison at the store, but speaking to the levels of conparison.

[n4r9]

> Lentils, beans, quinoa, chickpeas, mushrooms, nuts & seeds, etc. All of those have much more flexibility

With that flexibility comes inconvenience. With fake meat burgers or sausages I just have to whack the oven on and boil some veg to go alongside. That's family dinner. With lentils I have to s think more about how to make it tasty for everyone.

[throwup238]

> Without government subsidies, a pound of ground beef would cost closer to $30-$40.

This is absolute nonsense, but I’m curious why you believe this to be the case?

[tombert]

I know that there's a lot of reasons for this, but at least in my area, the Beyond Meat products are considerably more expensive than actual animal meat.

I'm sure that's due to depressing subsidies or economies of scale, but regardless of the reason it's kind of hard for me to justify buying something that will taste like a "not-quite-as-good-as-the-thing-half-the-price" burger.

They are pretty good, don't get me wrong, it's just something that I have trouble purchasing.

[dmitrygr]

> I'm sure that's due to depressing subsidies

Based on what data do you make such unsubstantiatable statements?

[xenospn]

It’s not exactly a secret that farmers are highly subsidized and without it beef would be extremely expensive. Same in every country, pretty much.

[tombert]

You know, I am actually having trouble substantiating that.

I was just parroting what I heard but doing a search I found a bunch of posts claiming that subsidies don’t actually affect the price that much, and I cannot find a primary source for the $30/pound figure I have always heard.

[marricks]

100%, a product can't be just good and succeed now. Market's expect something to be "the next thing" or become a failure.

Also, price is always going to be an issue. The US spends billions and billions of dollars supporting the meat industry. The fact meat is cheap is a political choice, which makes direct plant based substitutes a tough financial proposition.

[brnaftr361]

As a vegetarian that regularly uses plant-based substitutes: I'm super reluctant to believe a market for a product like Beyond ever existed. Between Beyond and Impossible they've got this weird chimera market, especially the latter, with their too-realistic product. If meaters cared they'd switch, there wasn't really a whole lot of fence sitting I don't think—not in reality. I think people were pretty well committed. I also think the sympathetic market of vegetarians and vegans didn't find the premise of these too-realistic products especially thrilling. And I don't think that's a huge market in the first place, at least not in a large portion of the US.

Then you factor in the costs and it's Beyond insanity.

And frankly I don't know if Beyond was doing anything legitimately novel. Impossible was over-engineering their burger to the extent that I wouldn't eat one from any restaurant because I couldn't tell whether it was be'f or beef. Beyond just seemed to be nu-gardein which I'll grant you—it's a Monsanto subsidiary—but the product is palettable, consistent, and available almost universally and has been as long as I've been on the diet, 12 years.

[gwbas1c]

I think there was a fallacy that suddenly the whole of the general public would rush to stop eating meat and would accept a meat-like substitute; and that vegetarians craved something that tasted like meat.

This of course was completely false, but far too many people let themselves get caught up in hype instead of reason.

---

I remember having an excellent veggie burger at a bar, and then when I went back a year later, it was replaced by Beyond or Impossible, and the bar tender was pretty open about how it was gross but their distributor pushed it on them. That of course pissed off the vegetarians who didn't like meat and had no desire for a meat-like substitute.

[altairprime]

I can think of reasons they would need to diversify or collapse that relate to regulatory capture of the FDA by the current U.S. administration. Better some business that maintains continuity through hostile times than to collapse and see their future evaporate.

[indubioprorubik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZgfTarNxdY

[dgxyz]

Yeah exactly that. It's just pretty damn good. It's just not universe changing.

Hope this doesn't kill them.

[MarceliusK]

It feels like a classic case of a product category being forced into a venture-scale narrative