[cortesoft]

I have never worked on AAA games, but I have developed software for 35 years and play many competitive online games regularly.

I have always wondered why more companies don't do trust based anti cheat management. Many cheats are obvious from anyone in the game, you see people jumping around like crazy, or a character will be able to shoot through walls, or something else that impossible for a non-cheater to do.

Each opponent in the game is getting the information from the cheating player's game that has it doing something impossible. I know it isn't as simple as having the game report another player automatically, because cheaters could report legitimate players... but what if each game reported cheaters, and then you wait for a pattern... if the same player is reported in every game, including against brand new players, then we would know the were a cheater.

Unless cheaters got to be a large percentage of the player population, they shouldn't be able to rig it.

[orbital-decay]

Less skilled players can't distinguish better players from cheaters, and reports are usually abused and used in bad faith. Even a good-faith report really just means "I don't want to see this player for whatever reason". It's used as a signal of something in most systems but never followed outright in good games because players get a ton of useless reports.

Players in some games with custom servers run webs of trust (or rather distrust, shared banlists). They are typically abused to some degree and good players are banned across multiple servers by admins acting in bad faith or just straight up not caring. This rarely ends well.

I used to run popular servers for PvP sandbox games and big communities, and we used votebans/reports to evict good players from casual servers to anarchy ones, where they could compete, but a mod always had to approve the eviction using a pretty non-trivial process. This system was useless for catching cheaters, we got them in other ways. That's for PvP sandboxes - in e-sports grade games reports are useless for anything.

[cortesoft]

No, I wasn’t saying the human player would report them, I am saying the game itself would. If the game receives an update from another player showing them in a location that is too far away from their previous spot, for example, the client would know the other client is cheating, and would report it automatically.

[orbital-decay]

That's pretty redundant then, and also subject to abuse. Server state is already an authoritative source of truth, and the server itself should be doing behavioral analysis (which many do, it's not enough). In real-life conditions of most games, what you see, what server sees, and what each other client sees are entirely different and unrelated things.

[max-m]

A couple of years ago the bot situation in casual Team Fortress 2 was so bad that it wasn't uncommon to land in a game where the majority of at least one of the teams was a group of cooperating bots. In those matches you have the possibility to start a kick-vote on your team mates, and those bots would immediately vote “no” if you tried to vote on any of them and because they were the majority of the team these votes always failed. And if these batch were in your enemy team all you could do was to ask the remaining, hopefully real, players on the enemy team to try to kick them. It was especially annoying when you tried to play certain game modes these bots weren't programmed to handle, they had no idea of the objective and the match would stall indefinitely, forcing you to queue for a different match. And if I remember correctly these bots were pretty much headshotting everything they got in sight. Something the server can easily detect. But VAC for example acts intentionally slow, so cheaters don't get immediate feedback.

Out of curiosity I did a quick internet search and a couple of months ago a new wave of bots has emerged. Those bots also join as majority group but never fully join the game, they simply take up slots in a team, preventing others from joining. Makes you wonder why the server isn't timing them out.

[dxuh]

Counter-Strike has been doing this for years. It's called "Overwatch" (even before Blizzards Overwatch came out). And believe it or not it failed to reliably catch actual cheaters AND got non-cheaters in trouble (both repeatedly). A very good player is indistinguishable from a cheater with a good cheat. Sometimes people just get super lucky for a few rounds and you might get judged based on that.

[magicalhippo]

> A very good player is indistinguishable from a cheater with a good cheat.

I played COD4 a lot, though not competitively. I used to say that I had a bad day if I didn't get called a cheater once.

I didn't cheat, never have, but some people are just not aware of where the ceiling is.

The cheaters that annoyed us back then were laughably obvious. They'd just hold the button with a machine gun and get headshots after headshots, or something blatant like that.

[chucksmash]

> some people are just not aware of where the ceiling is

True of everything. Getting good just lets you see the skill gaps. I've sunk a serious chunk of time into both pool and chess. In both I'd be willing to take a bet that I can beat the median player with my eyes closed (in pool, closing them after walking the table but before getting down on the shot).

And in both of those activities, there are still like 10-20 levels of "person at skill level A should always win against person at skill level B" between me and someone who is ACTUALLY good at pool or chess. Being charitable, in the grand scheme of things I might be an intermediate player.

[shaokind]

Overwatch is now non-public - when CS2 replaced CS:GO, it wasn't available, and when it was reintroduced, it was only for "trusted partners" [0].

[0]: https://steamdb.info/patchnotes/14178987/

[cortesoft]

I was imagining specific things that are impossible, not just things that would be unlikely.

For example, in NBA2k there are a lot of players running around who are like 12 feet tall. The client has to render that, and the client could have a “if another client tells us their player is more than 8 feet tall, it is a cheater”