[michaelchisari]

| The collapse of USSR was 100% caused by internal causes.

I wouldn't take the time to argue otherwise, although it's a question of what's considered an "internal cause." Afghanistan comes to mind. But generally, yes, absent any external pressure, the internal mismanagement still would have had the Soviet system in a very bad way and collapse would have been a matter of time.

So we're not particularly in disagreement there, except for matters of degree (100%? eh.)

But I disagree strongly that shock therapy can be put solely on the shoulders of Gaidar. You can't talk about shock therapy without talking about Jeffrey Sachs. Although I wouldn't put it all on his shoulders either. It was an extremely complicated situation from top to bottom.

But most of all, my post was really more about the how the American empire's fall will not look like the Soviet's. And I stand by that completely.

[dh2022]

Afghanistan - economically not a big impact. The economic pressures in the 80s were low agricultural productivity requiring imports from Western countries, low oil/gas prices and productivity, endemic corruption. And if we really want to be pedantic, nobody forced USSR to invade Afghanistan.

I had to look up Jeffrey Sachs (0). He was an adviser-that is all he did. He did not impose anything on Yeltsin or Russia.

I agree that American decline will not resemble Russian collapse. Their commonality is both declines have internal causes. But other than that there isn’t much in common.

(0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Sachs#Russia

[michaelchisari]

| I had to look up Jeffrey Sachs

Like I said, it's complicated.

| I agree that American decline will not resemble Russian collapse.

Then we are in agreement.