[GorbachevyChase]

You can always code by hand as a hobby.

If someone is paying you for your work results, that you find it interesting or fun is orthogonal. I get the sense from the commentary section here that there’s a perception that writing programs is an exceptional profession where developer happiness is an end unto itself, and everyone doing it deserves to be a millionaire in the process. It just comes across as child-like thinking. I don’t think many of us spend time, wondering if the welder enjoys the torch or if a cheaper shop weld is robbing the human welder of the satisfaction of a field weld. And we don’t shed so much ink wondering if digital spreadsheets are a moral good or not because perhaps they robbed the accountant of the satisfaction of holding a beautiful quill in hand dipped expertly in carefully selected ink. You’re lucky if you enjoy your job, I think most of us find a way to learn to enjoy our work or at least tolerate it.

I just wish all the moaning would end. Code generation is not new, and that the state of the art is now as good at translating high-level instructions into a program at least as well as the bottom 10% of programmers is a huge win for humanity. Work that could be trivially automated, but is not only because of the scarcity of programming knowledge is going to start disappearing. I think the value creation is going to be tremendous and I think it will take years for it to penetrate existing workflows and for us to recognize the value.

[notpachet]

> at least as well as the bottom 10% of programmers

I don't think this is the flex you think it is... in my experience, the bottom 10% of programmers are actively harmful and should never be allowed near your codebase.

[GorbachevyChase]

Quite a few people think that about Claude code. I disagree with them, personally, but I think we can agree that AI code generation is qualitatively at least as good as the worst human professionals. I think we would also probably agree that the state of the art today is not as good as the very best.

The value per dollar spent is a different calculus and I would say that state of the art models completely surpass any individual’s productive output.

[notpachet]

I don't understand how:

> the state of the art today is not as good as the very best

and

> state of the art models completely surpass any individual’s productive output

are not contradictory. If the models completely surpass any individual's productive output, doesn't that mean they're better than the best humans? Or maybe I don't understand what you mean by "surpassing productive output." Are you talking about raw quantity over quality? I mean, yeah... but I could also do that with a bash script.

[famouswaffles]

>are not contradictory. If the models completely surpass any individual's productive output, doesn't that mean they're better than the best humans?

It would be contradictory if we were talking about a human sure, but we're not. We're talking about a machine that can read thousands of words in seconds and spit thousands in slightly longer.

>Are you talking about raw quantity over quality? I mean, yeah... but I could also do that with a bash script.

Well except you can't. You can't replace what LLMs can do with a bash script unless your bash script is calling some other LLM.

[apsurd]

> And we don’t shed so much ink wondering if digital spreadsheets are a moral good or not because perhaps they robbed the accountant…

Caught my eye. I do think we should wonder and hold intentionality around products, especially digital products, like the spreadsheet. Software is different. It's a limitless resource with limitless instantaneous reach. A good weld is beautiful in its own right, but it's not that.

The spreadsheet in particular changed the way millions of people work. Is it more productive? Is an army of middle-managers orienting humanity through the lens of a literal 2x2cm square a net good?

I say we should moralize on that.

[whateveracct]

since when has velocity or volume of codegen been the bottleneck for any business?

i write less code than my AI-using coworkers but I have as much or more impact. Coding wasn't so hard that I need to spend time learning a new proprietary tech stack with a subscription fee lol. I believe plenty of engineers did suck enough and computers to benefit tho. That is where Anthropic makes their money.

[paulryanrogers]

> I just wish all the moaning would end.

It can be unpleasant to participate in a community of differing opinions and experiences. I still think it's worth showing up. If I hadn't then your perspective would have been missed too.