[hylaride]

Look, MacOS has certainly rotted over the past few years, but the primary reason I use it is because it's still a hundred times nicer to use than Windows (which is also regressing for worse reasons - shoving in AI and ads instead of benign neglect).

It's still the best desktop UNIX experience, especially since cheap PC laptops (and until very recently expensive ones) almost always have horrible build quality. It's also within only the last few years that PC trackpads came anywhere near the trackpads on Apple machines. Sometimes what you call a "tax" is literally some of us wanting quality.

[meatmanek]

macOS is the best desktop UNIX for one simple reason: the ⌘ key. The fact that 99% of your GUI keybindings use a key that your CLI tooling cannot use eliminates conflicts and means that you don't have to remember things like "Copy is ^C in Chrome but ^⇧C in the terminal".

[weaksauce]

using a linux with toshy to get the best of both worlds wrt keybindings. linux and kde is amazing nowadays... I don't miss macos but would be hating linux without mac style keybindings.

[meatmanek]

Yeah, I use Kinto (which seems to be what Toshy is originally based on). A recent Ubuntu update broke it though, and I accidentally deleted my config file while trying to fix it, so maybe now's a good time to try out Toshy. Looks like Toshy creates a python virtualenv instead of relying on system packages, which should make it a little more resilient to system package changes.

[weaksauce]

yeah... it's good stuff and if python breaks something after a package update reinstalling toshy is quick and easy and the config is safe if you only write your modifications inside the areas where they tell you to. (though backup of the folder is a good idea when doing that)

[butILoveLife]

Oh man, you NEED to use Fedora.

Fedora is the best OS humanity has ever made. No exaguration. There needs to be the best, and its Fedora.

Linux gets a bad reputation because 20-ish years ago Ubuntu sent out free CDs and became the dominant OS. Ubuntu/Mint is part of Debian family, outdated linux. They call outdated Linux 'stable', but its not stable like a table. Its software version frozen. Bugs that are fixed today wont get those fixes for 2 years. Not to mention, a new mouse you buy from amazon/nvidia card/web video player wont work due to the outdated nature of these distros. (And yes, I know you can do surgery to update it, but no one likes that)

Fedora is not Arch. Fedora is the consumer grade Red Hat.

[jeswin]

> Linux gets a bad reputation because 20-ish years ago Ubuntu sent out free CDs and became the dominant OS.

I've been an Ubuntu user for 20 years, and RedHat and Suse prior to that. Ubuntu just worked. Debian had packages for everything, including from 3rd party vendors. It lets me focus on my work, and not worry about the OS, or compiling packages, or finding installers. When I had issues (rare), the large user base meant that someone had already figured out a solution to the problem.

The flavor of Linux doesn't matter so much in my opinion.

[cestith]

Debian stable isn’t that much more version locked than CentOS or RHEL. Debian also has the Testing tier, which is semi-rolling. Or you could use Unstable. Or if you’re brave, you could use Nightly.

Ubuntu, Mint, PopOS, and others with Debian as an upstream are not Debian. They build their own packages on their own schedules.

Fedora is not “consumer grade RedHat”. It’s the rolling release upstream of RHEL, much like Debian Testing is upstream of Debian Stable.

The main reason Linux got a bad reputation was the tribalism of people going off half-cocked talking about their personal preferences without actually working with the alternatives and starting this sort of holy war diatribe.

[GuinansEyebrows]

i've made my entire career digging deep into linux - i've been what some people would call a "power user" for about 25 years, and a professional for 15. i spent over a decade distrohopping, tweaking, tinkering and customizing every distro from Corel to Mandrake to Mandriva to Debian to Slackware to Ubuntu to Gentoo to Arch to Void, and everything in between, plus the BSDs. i've been a sysadmin, network admin, devops engineer, yadda yadda yadda.

i have never once successfully installed fedora. probably just hardware stuff, but as often as i've wanted to try it and opensuse, they have never booted post-install for me. on machines i've successfully installed Debian and openBSD. go figure. i know i'm an outlier here. maybe it's just bad luck.

but reading your post, it sounds like a club i don't want to be a part of. linux is linux. distros don't matter. you can get nearly anything to work if you spend enough time on it. GUI OS installers that fail are not worth my time.

[anthk]

Fedora Silverblue it's better and Cosmic Desktop looks good for a DE in every release (upcoming 44). For some isolated and rollbackable option, your only options are Silverblue and Guix for the hard way. If you use Nonguix for Guix, on your own, but I'd only use a nonfree kernel in an emergency (the wireless adapter somehow gets broken and the alternative is to boot the OS with propietary fw in order to buy a new one). And in that case I would blacklist every propietary fw except for the wireless ones.

And, yes, I have an overlaid Linux-Libre kernel in SilverBlue.

[fsflover]

> For some isolated and rollbackable option, your only options are Silverblue and Guix for the hard way.

How about Qubes OS? Also the parent never said anything about isolation and roll-backs. Nobody mentioned Silverblue except you. The discussion is about ordinary users, not hackers.

[butILoveLife]

Silverblue is supposed to be for normies. Rollbacks are for when you screw everything up.

But honestly I did not like Silverblue. I had a 13 year old gaming computer I installed it on and I couldnt get the ancient GPU drivers installed due to the way things are containerized. This would have been a few commands otherwise.

Maybe its fine for chromebook-like things. I might have picked a bad testcase.

[mghackerlady]

Glad to see someone else care so much about software freedom. Guix is great (though my ideal system would be debian with a shepherd init, fhs, and guix for non-root package management)